How to Determine Boat Value via Internet (Valiant 42) ?

[zeehag]

there is a blue book for yachts. ask a broker-- they will have a copy. that will advise as to approx value of boat.
welcome to cf. may you find one at a decent price.

[arisatx]

jd1:

You may also want to ask around the Valiant Owners' Group on Yahoo!, although the feedback you get there may not be entirely objective.

Valiant-sailboats : Valiant Sailboat Owners Group

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by arisatx

jd1:

You may also want to ask around the Valiant Owners' Group on Yahoo!, although the feedback you get there may not be entirely objective.

Valiant-sailboats : Valiant Sailboat Owners Group

I have signed up with the group already. Interesting read through the archives!

I am in Victoria, BC, Canada

[barnakiel]

The price range does not really matter to you - you will not be buying all of them. Narrow down to the couple of boats that you do like / consider.

Electronics can be replaced without much hassle. Look for things like sound structure, good engine and systems that are still in production / on the market. Personally, I would pay no extra for any extra gear unless the piece is so unique that you cannot buy it cheaper elsewhere.

For anything older than (say) ten years, I would seriously consider things like full standing rigging replacement, new sails, etc.. Get quotes and do your maths.

All other things equal, I would try to get as recent an example as possible. Then again, with 500k to spend, there are countess quality boats around to chose from. A Valiant is like a HR, some of what you pay is for the name.

b.

[ssanzone]

buying a new boat is not like buying a new car. cars as mass produced by machines and computers and are tested and inspected 34873573894 times before you get in the driver seat.

boats builds are far less automated and most new boats require work within the first 2 years. i am certainly a HUGE proponent of that new boat smell and i am 100% confident that as 500k new boat has a hell of a lot more quality control than a 100K build.

to your actual question...it isnt easy.

i would start by researching vessel sales over the last 5 years so i have a gauge for 'good boat market / bad boat market'
consider engine (hours / maintenance)
sails & rigging
woodwork

at 5 yrs old every vessel will need some attention on these 'big ticket' items

if gauges were replaced last year that is a check off in the 'added value column' if they are the original gauges from 5 years ago then the check box is in the 'add to total cost of ownership / 5 year spend plan' which depreciates the current value of the boat.

i dont think you can escape getting on a plane, but there may be somebody local (perhaps a CF member) who can take an can a look at a vessel and give you their opinion.

i dont envy you this challenge.

gl
-steve

[Jd1]

Well folks, reality has set in
I looked at "sold" listings (thanks Richard) and only a single V42 went for a substantial discount from the asking price and it wasn't near 50%. My budget isn't anywhere near 500k (I don't think I ever said anything about my budget) and my wife would strangle me in the middle of the night while I was sleeping if I went anywhere near (or far) there. The fact that the Canadian $ is rapidly falling doesn't help matters.
Anyhow, I will need to do some re-thinking about my ability to afford a V42 as my first sailboat.
Thanks everybody for some real good points brought out in the conversation!

[arisatx]

jd1:
If it's your first boat, but you are looking for a blue water capable boat, why not consider something smaller, perhaps more in line with what you want to spend? I know of one Valiant 50 which was a 1st boat, but I'd suggest something smaller.

How about a Pacific Seacraft 37? I know of a clean fresh water only boat up here on Lake Michigan (which also means it only gets used 6 months out of the year).

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

or that the price has been arrived at simply by matching the finance owed (once you get into default / arrears the penalties and interest can really start to add up).

I would narrow it down to 2 or 3 candidates, get full details (and photos) and either visit yourself or engage a Surveyor for a preliminery inspection (should be cheaper than a full survey), basically to confirm she is as described and no obvious faults.

After that it is down to comparing specs and deciding what is important to you......and then it's off to Mr Google to compare prices with similar boats.

...and talk extensively with the broker to feel out how hungry the seller is. ask " so why are they selling?' etc It's a boat with a great reputation, but it's just a boat. Dont get too enamoured with the "mystic". I've had a higher end Bob Perry boat and I love his designs, but I've had two others that I liked as well. Is it worth 200k more than a fast passage 39, Tashiba 40 etc?

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by arisatx

jd1:
If it's your first boat, but you are looking for a blue water capable boat, why not consider something smaller, perhaps more in line with what you want to spend? I know of one Valiant 50 which was a 1st boat, but I'd suggest something smaller.

How about a Pacific Seacraft 37? I know of a clean fresh water only boat up here on Lake Michigan (which also means it only gets used 6 months out of the year).

Up here moorage over 30 feet is a BIG issue. At 42 feet I MIGHT have a chance but at 50 feet chances are pretty much zero .... plus I would have a serious issue parking a monster like that
One of the Valiants I found was a lake boat, 1997 I think, and it sounded real nice. It was in the 300K range, probably because of the shape it was in being a lake boat and all.
The Pacific Seacraft falls in my size range but for some reason it isn't anywhere near as attractive to me. As things stand right now, I will have to expand my search and include other boats since I probably won't be able to reach as high as a Valiant (although I might try - nothing ventured nothing gained)

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Is it worth 200k more than a fast passage 39, Tashiba 40 etc?

Interesting you mention the Fast Passage. That has been the boat for me with the biggest "WOW" factor for the longest time. Unfortunately, they have been out of production for too many moons which is why the Valiant was chosen. I would rather spend a bit more than have a "project boat" on my hands. I am reasonably handy (although I haven't done fiberglass work) but for reasons unknown, sailing time beats hard labour every time Also, a lot of the marinas out here don't let you do your own work when hauled and even restrict work when you are floating (I must admit though, I haven't done too much research on this aspect of things)

I will have a look what the Tashiba looks like ... thanks!

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by SVCoolChange

If you are seriously interested in a Valliant 42, call Bernie at RogueWave Yacht Sales. He sails a Valliant 42, is a Valliant dealer and knows cruising boats. I really trust his knowledge and opinion, know others who have dealt with him and feel he has done a great job representing me. He represented me on the purchase of two boats and the sale of one. If I sell or buy another boat he will again represent me.

The poster above has one, you might ask him about his impressions. Everything I've heard they are one sweet boat, but I havent owned one. I believe they were built by Tollycraft right? Tollycraft built boats very well and the owner of Tolly would not compromise, the boats built clear back in the 70's are still revered and popular.
Of course, as you say, maybe you just need something built in the last 10 years. After 8-10 years old and it is my opinion everything is suspect for a rebuild anyway. Good Luck! More info: http://bluewaterboats.org/fast-passage-39/

here's an inside stored freshwater boat. A little high on the price I think... http://www.everyboat.com/boat/1193-1...passage-cutter

[David_Old_Jersey]

Only one 100% sure way to determine a boat's market.........try and sell it!

FWIW on bigger purchases (and for me a $300k+ boat would qualify ) I always ask myself "what price would I be happy trying to sell at?" (doesn't mean I offer down to that price, but it gives me a gut feel on the "I want it now" premium!

Of course could buy a Catamaran, apparently they are doubling in value every week (or summit )..........well, according to some folks with an interest in selling Catamarans

[SVCoolChange]

The Fast Passage for sale in Irondequoit, New York was built by Philbrooks Shipyard who built 20 or so before Tollycraft built 9 boats. My boat was the last built by Tollycraft, Frances Stokes boat was Tollycraft hull # 3.
There have been a few built since, last built was in 2001, (RogueWave sold it last summer)
It makes me feel good to see someone asking $165,000 for an older boat with a Perkins engine. I wouldn't say that it is not worth the asking price, it probably will sell for close to that.
My Fast Passage 39 had a major refit less than 10 years before I purchased it and has not been an undue burden, it was repowered with a new Yanmar in 2001. I was lucky enough to find this boat and feel that I bought a great boat for a great price. We have done the Bahamas the past two winters quite comfortably, never felt uncomfortable crossing the Gulf Stream.
I agree that buying an older boat can become a project but, my previoius boat (a NorSea 27) was built in 2001 and it required continuous expenditures also.
Just remember BOAT (Bring On Another Thousand)______________
Rule of thumb, you will spend 15% to 20% of the purchase price within the first six months of purchase either repairing or upgrading things you either need or want.

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

here's an inside stored freshwater boat. A little high on the price I think... 1979 Fast Passage Cutter - 39' Cruiser Sailboat for Sale in Irondequoit, New York

Considering that the last Fast Passage 39/40 that was built in 2000 had an asking price of $189k (last year I believe), I would say that $165k is way more than "a little high" for a 1979 boat
I suppose it is a bit of a collectors item and if the right person comes along .......