How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

[Rocketman]

It seems that there is a lot of miss information about live a boards, law's verse regs, verse rules. As a Dock master of a marina here is what I know

First off, at least here in Florida, there are no law's restricting live a boards that I know of. There may be local laws, but when challenged in court they rarely hold up.

The DEP (Department of Environmental Protection) sets up rules to operate a marina. They determine, based on water quality, human impact, boater impact, and who knows what, wither a marina can have live a boards or not.

Most marinas operate under a submerged land lease, meaning that the land under the docks is owned by the state, and if the DEP rules are not followed then the state will not renew the submerged land lease causing the marina to stop operation. So, to a marina, the DEP rules may as well be law's.

At our marina, we do not allow live a boards, you can stay 5 nights in a row then you must leave for a night then you allowed to stay 5 more nights in a row, within a 30 day period. I know, very stupid, but these are the rules the DEP has set for our marina.

At least in FL, if you want to live a board in a marina, I would say one of the most important things when considering a boat is wither or not you can get liability insurance on the boat. Don't assume you can. I have to turn down customer's everyday that want to keep there boat in our marina (not live a board) because they do not have insurance and can't get it unless they have a survey done, and do needed repairs pointed out in the survey. Our marina requires 300k to 1 million in liability insurance, based on LOA, in order to stay here, and I know most other decent marinas require the same.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

It seems that there is a lot of miss information about live a boards, law's verse regs, verse rules. As a Dock master of a marina here is what I know

First off, at least here in Florida, there are no law's restricting live a boards that I know of. There may be local laws, but when challenged in court they rarely hold up.

The DEP (Department of Environmental Protection) sets up rules to operate a marina. They determine, based on water quality, human impact, boater impact, and who knows what, wither a marina can have live a boards or not.

Most marinas operate under a submerged land lease, meaning that the land under the docks is owned by the state, and if the DEP rules are not followed then the state will not renew the submerged land lease causing the marina to stop operation. So, to a marina, the DEP rules may as well be law's.

At our marina, we do not allow live a boards, you can stay 5 nights in a row then you must leave for a night then you allowed to stay 5 more nights in a row, within a 30 day period. I know, very stupid, but these are the rules the DEP has set for our marina.

At least in FL, if you want to live a board in a marina, I would say one of the most important things when considering a boat is wither or not you can get liability insurance on the boat. Don't assume you can. I have to turn down customer's everyday that want to keep there boat in our marina (not live a board) because they do not have insurance and can't get it unless they have a survey done, and do needed repairs pointed out in the survey. Our marina requires 300k to 1 million in liability insurance, based on LOA, in order to stay here, and I know most other decent marinas require the same.

So... if one anchored out Fri & Sat nights you'd be okay..??
They had a similar rule in Brixham while I was there but I found if one kept a low profile and did nothing to attract attention one was left to just get on with life.. being a pain gets zero gain..

[Rocketman]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So... if one anchored out Fri & Sat nights you'd be okay..??
They had a similar rule in Brixham while I was there but I found if one kept a low profile and did nothing to attract attention one was left to just get on with life.. being a pain gets zero gain..

They way our DEP rules are set up, you can stay on your boat a maximum of 10 days within a 30 day period. We have a lot of people that use there boat as a floating condo, where they will come down and stay on the boat for a week or so then go back home.

I am sure that if you are quite and don't cause any problems then a lot of marina's will turn a blind eye to live a boards. With that said our marina will not allow it under any circumstances, this is the way our board of directors want it so that's the way it has to be.

[boatman61]

Right.. Scratch Naples, FL...

[Blue Crab]

All of SW FL was an absolute Paradise when I worked/cruised/fished there in the last century. Now it's paved. What a loss.

[Vancefish]

It's funny, we have loads and loads of homeless people begging on street corners, urinating in public areas and living under bridges.

Simultaneously we have people living in floating studio apartments, willing to PAY for a place to keep their TINY, EFFICIENT home. Who are in turn looked at as little more then the guy living under a bridge. If the "boater" has an actual job, and keeps there boat looking somewhat decent. They should be praised for living such an efficient lifestyle. If they add Solar and wind they should be looked at as HEROS!

Wouldn't life be better if all those homeless ex-construction workers, manufacturing workers and hard laborers had a home too?? MAYBE we could give them derelict boats, a few months of government dry dock to repair boats, and clean up two messes at once? The yard could require they assist in fixing up 2-3 boats to "obtain" your own. They could even live ON a boat in the yard while they did it. Sell 2, give away 1 should pay for it all.

Oh no, That'll never work. ALL wealthy people know that homeless people and derelict boats are because people are ultimately lazy drunken beggars. NOT because the economy is in tatters.

[shorebird]

This is how your idea would work in Vancouver. Give homeless people 2 derelict boats, one to fix up and sell, one to keep as a "home." Homeless person complains the state has given them a home well below living and safety standards, then demands the taxpayer fix up his boat to make it safer and more livable. He then complains he has no money to fix up his second boat to sell it. Lefties demand everyone else give the homeless person money to fix up his boat, so he can sell it, get some money, and get back on his feet. He decides to use the money to buy drugs, sells the second boat as is for $50, both moor their derelict boats, which drag anchor, go ashore, spill fuel and sewage, cost the taxpayer more money, and 2 more homeless people are back on the streets. The taxpayer who funded the whole thing gets mugged by the same street people, while the lefties demand more funding for more programs. The mentally ill street people deserve proper funding, intervention and support. the funding needed to do so, is sucked up by to many able-bodied drunks and drug addicts who continually make bad life decisions, blame everyone else for their problems, demand endless support from taxpayers and charitable organizations. Two things will happen if you give homeless people derelict boats as homes, and both things will happen with equal predictability:
#1- The sun will rise in the morning.
#2- Another ill-conceived, misguided effort by lefties will fail, cost the taxpayer buckets of money, and leave the homeless no better off. The lefties will complain that the program would have worked, if only...

[Vancefish]

I can't say I disagree with you, on the model you propose. LOL

My overall point was, if I keep a nice boat and LIVE ON IT legitimately? I am not a scum bag living under a bridge drinking myself to death. If I was, I'd be there, not PAYING to live in a marina (Where I could get a land lover job maybe??).

I'm sure a number of homeless people would make it to the water and clean up a couple boats too! I didn't say give a drunk guy two boats and walk away! I said give a homeless person the opportunity to WORK to get a boat (never said free). If he/she failed to stay sober they'd be gone. If they worked hard for a few months they'd have a home (freshly restored to look nice too!).

[Rocketman]

A lot of the rules, regs, laws that we have now are a direct result of the DEP (department of environmental protection) which I believe is an extreme lefty organization. Many, if not most of boating laws are a direct result of the DEP.

We also have do gooders that want to help the unfortunate souls. The stark reality is that keeping a floating apartment healthy, neat looking, and safe takes a lot of money. I would argue more money than it takes to keep that person in an apartment on land.

One of the reasons, people that do not understand boating and complain about boaters is because a small percent (derelict boats) cause most of the problems that no one has an answer to correct. Most of the derelict boats that I know of would cost a small fortune to fix up to get them into safe live a board condition, and would fall right back into derelict condition in a very short time if left to a person that nether has the money or ambition to keep it that way.

I have been personally involved in helping an unfortunate soul rescue his home and putting it back into at least safe condition. Unfortunately within a very short time the boat was back to derelict condition and the person that I helped was calling me every name in the book because of it.

Those that are living on the fringes of society , IMHO have no business living on a boat.

[Vancefish]

Ah, now that point I can see.

Many people refuse to do there own repairs, or think they can't do the work themselves for some reason. I see it with cars all the time. Guys car needs a clutch ($200 to replace yourself). Yet the car rots away because they can't afford to pay $1400 for some shop to do it. I could see it being the same story with a boat. Engine dies (might just need a new injector). Boat goes derelict over that because the owner can't pay $500 to have someone fix or just diagnose it for them.

Makes perfect sense.

[shorebird]

Rocketman, I rest my case.

[Rocketman]

Originally Posted by Vancefish

Ah, now that point I can see.

Many people refuse to do there own repairs, or think they can't do the work themselves for some reason. I see it with cars all the time. Guys car needs a clutch ($200 to replace yourself). Yet the car rots away because they can't afford to pay $1400 for some shop to do it. I could see it being the same story with a boat. Engine dies (might just need a new injector). Boat goes derelict over that because the owner can't pay $500 to have someone fix or just diagnose it for them.

Makes perfect sense.

I am not sure where you got your analogy, but I think you completely missed the point.

The people that I am talking about have no need for a motor on there boat. They simply use it to sleep on and for shelter. There main motivation is to collect enough money to buy cigarettes, booze, and drugs with an occasional meal for desert.

What you are suggesting is someone that cares about the boat and there surroundings, it has been my personal experience that if they care about these things then they are also able to hold a job and earn there own money to live there life style.

I don't have a beef with someone that has an old boat that needs work and they care enough to make attempts to get help. Helping someone that doesn't even know they need it is a waste of time.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

What you are suggesting is someone that cares about the boat and there surroundings, it has been my personal experience that if they care about these things then they are also able to hold a job and earn there own money to live there life style.

My experience as someone in their upper 50's is wanting a job and getting a job when there are 5+ younger then you wanting the same job, well it's going to be just a wee bit hard. Specially when very few folks now a days need buildings designed or built. Naples is a pretty insulated place with a fairly high end lifestyle. Middle income folks and lower generally live elsewhere (Fort Myers/CC, etc.)

BTW Boatman Phil, you'd probably not like Naples, FL all that much. Too many condo's and too much money. Poor sailors those with boats less then $100K-$200k need not apply. The weather is nice, but its a pretty cold place otherwise.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by John A

]

I beg to differ! I've driven past the place to many times to let this go unanswered.

,San Quentin State Prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For those who don't want to read this article note this.

The prison complex has its own ZIP code for mail sent to inmates, 94974;[9] the ZIP code of the adjacent community of Point San Quentin Village is 94964.[10] It is bordered by San Francisco Bay to the south and west and by Interstate 580 to the north and east, near the northern terminus of the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge.

Now mate, if the Bay is west of the prison, then that means that the prison is on the east side of the bay, ergo next to Richmond.

Mate, it's in Marin County! Across the Bay!

[Rocketman]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

My experience as someone in their upper 50's is wanting a job and getting a job when there are 5+ younger then you wanting the same job, well it's going to be just a wee bit hard. Specially when very few folks now a days need buildings designed or built. Naples is a pretty insulated place with a fairly high end lifestyle. Middle income folks and lower generally live elsewhere (Fort Myers/CC, etc.)

BTW Boatman Phil, you'd probably not like Naples, FL all that much. Too many condo's and too much money. Poor sailors those with boats less then $100K-$200k need not apply. The weather is nice, but its a pretty cold place otherwise.

Sorry, but this sounds a little bit like reverse discrimination against the wealthy or well to do. I certainly would not consider myself poor or wealthy.

Sailorchic, if you were to come to Naples being still in you 50's you might find that you would likely be a youngster here. It seems that most of the sailors in our sailing club are over 60 and most are over 70.

I defiantly will admit that this is condo heaven and many people that buy and live in them have an issue with everyone else that isn't like them. Boaters in general seem to enjoy life way to much for there sensitive emotions.