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Old 30-01-2014, 20:10   #31
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
There's a lot of internet bilge talk about "laws" but I think you'll find most laws regulating liveaboards are pure myths. And confusion over what a private marina, or the marinas in one area, have decided to do privately. If I was required, or allowed, to rent out 10% of my docks to liveaboards....well, if you charge by the foot you can make twice as much money by "requiring" only bigger boats, can't you?
Ah, the light bulb goes off. Now tell people it is the law, or your insurance, or someone else's fault so you don't have to argue with them.

Yes, most if not all marinas charge by your entire overall length on deck, as measured by a string from the furthest back to the furthest forward, and if your anchor hangs over your bow guess what? You'll pay for that extension too.

So yes, you can always make your boat longer...in fact some yachts have had "falsies" added to their hulls to make them meet race requirements the same way. But you might want to find out if there really are LAWS about length, because a LAW will define how the length is measured, and that might exclude the stuff marinas gladly will charge you for.

If there is a LAW, someone can cite a source for you, and you can look it up and find it on the web these days. On a government web site. No citation? No law, just FUD.
ROFL. Really need to google first. In Cali, its the McAteer-Petris Act that govern liveaboards. The Act created the BCDC, who set is limits to 10% the liveaboards at a marina in California and requires that liveaboard vessel be able to move every 180 days. All a matter of law and available on the internet.

The length requirement is strictly a marina issue and not state law.
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Old 30-01-2014, 20:14   #32
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

sailorchic?
Isn't the Cali BCDC just and only a SF BAY overlord? And their powers limited to SF Bay, not the whole state?
Which makes their rulings a local affair, not a state (statewide) law. And whatever restrictions they want to put on managing the SF Bay, not relevant to the larger picture of Cali "state" laws that apply to the entire state.
A significant difference between a state-chartered regional authority, and actual state laws governing the entire state.
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Old 30-01-2014, 20:22   #33
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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What Marina is that? Almost any marina in Clear Lake will allow you to live aboard on any size boat. Southshore harbor does not allow any live aboards, but the rest you should be OK. I know of at least 4 marinas in Clear Lake that have 27' live aboards.
RD, many of the Coastal Bend marinas are owned and operated by, or rented from, public/municipal entities (Aransas Cty, AP, PA, CC, etc.); which might differ from the more commercial(?) Clear Lake area (I've only worked over that way on TDY, not kept a sailboat there, had a Galveston WE beachhouse w/a powerboat dock/lift).
And looking at terms and conditions, they have varying conditions governing liveaboards. The most common is restricting the number of them to a percentage of the total slips.
I think that the CC Marina recently imposed a length requirement for liveaboards (~30' IIRC), probably grandfathered any now below that.
Renewals (yearly) are also tricky, with conditions imposed and approvals required... Ones I've spoken to (not inre to lvabd) seem to be pretty easy going though.
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Old 30-01-2014, 20:41   #34
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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sailorchic?
Isn't the Cali BCDC just and only a SF BAY overlord? And their powers limited to SF Bay, not the whole state?
Which makes their rulings a local affair, not a state (statewide) law. And whatever restrictions they want to put on managing the SF Bay, not relevant to the larger picture of Cali "state" laws that apply to the entire state.
A significant difference between a state-chartered regional authority, and actual state laws governing the entire state.
You're correct. And from my experience as a legal liveaboard in the SF Bay there are long waiting list for liveaboard slips. All of the marinas owned by cities didn't have liability insurance that covered people living on their boats so the yrestricted such activity.

Some things to consider if you chose to become a "sneak-aboard".

Don't try it! Staff and legal liveabords will rat on you.

Security guards record the car license numbers in the parking lot during the night.

Most marinas have the slips electrical meter at the dock box, and bill you for your personnel usage.
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Old 30-01-2014, 20:53   #35
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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sailorchic?
Isn't the Cali BCDC just and only a SF BAY overlord? And their powers limited to SF Bay, not the whole state?
Which makes their rulings a local affair, not a state (statewide) law. And whatever restrictions they want to put on managing the SF Bay, not relevant to the larger picture of Cali "state" laws that apply to the entire state.
A significant difference between a state-chartered regional authority, and actual state laws governing the entire state.
The McAteer-Petris Act IS just for the SF bay area but was enacted by the state to control SF bay in-fill. So yes its not state wide, but the act was voted into law and includes fees, fines , etc. set at the state level for the bay area So its not just a local ordnance either. Its a state law for a regional area. But it does not govern SOCAL. I believe SOCAL marinas are governed by each cities laws.

Just that folks were saying there there was no laws limiting liveaboards. On SF Bay there are and laws were set at the state level for the SF Bay. This due to all the cities/counties around the bay.

So in the SF Bay it is a law, just not in SoCAL, which really is even more restrictive from what I hear.
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Old 30-01-2014, 21:00   #36
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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You're correct. And from my experience as a legal liveaboard in the SF Bay there are long waiting list for liveaboard slips. All of the marinas owned by cities didn't have liability insurance that covered people living on their boats so the yrestricted such activity.

Some things to consider if you chose to become a "sneak-aboard".

Don't try it! Staff and legal liveabords will rat on you.

Security guards record the car license numbers in the parking lot during the night.

Most marinas have the slips electrical meter at the dock box, and bill you for your personnel usage.
Hum... so don't go sneak aboard around John A's boat. Ok Got that. Gee not all marina's have security guards either. Nor do all live aboards have cars. Though most marinas do meter the electric use at the dock box.

While liveaboard are hard to find, Marina Bay in Richmond normally has a few openings pretty much all the time. Its Richmond after all. Though actually a pretty nice marina, if your not on F or G docks
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Old 30-01-2014, 23:13   #37
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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Hum... so don't go sneak aboard around John A's boat. Ok Got that. Gee not all marina's have security guards either. Nor do all live aboards have cars. Though most marinas do meter the electric use at the dock box.

While liveaboard are hard to find, Marina Bay in Richmond normally has a few openings pretty much all the time. Its Richmond after all. Though actually a pretty nice marina, if your not on F or G docks
I moved aboard at Oyster Point South SF January of 1988, in March of 1989 I moved to Grand Marina, Alameda (B37) and left to go cruising October 9th, 2000. I never reported anyone but it really didn't seem right to pay extra to wait for a sneak-aboard to finish showering.

Everyone I knew had a car and every marina I ever visited had security guards at night. Believe me when I say I visited a few from the time I moved to the bay area in 1969.

Richmond is home to San Quintin State prison that does most of the executions for California, located just down the road from the marina. Many apartments in the area are used as halfway houses, indeed most of the apartments have bars in the windows, even on the second floor.
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Old 30-01-2014, 23:32   #38
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Yes, most if not all marinas charge by your entire overall length on deck, as measured by a string from the furthest back to the furthest forward, and if your anchor hangs over your bow guess what? You'll pay for that extension too.
Just a small point -- Length Overall and Length on Deck are two different things. Length on Deck does not include bowsprits, davits, anchors and other protrusions -- when a boat is called a "Neptune 45" or a "Mermaid 36" the number usually refers to the Length on Deck, as that's the measure of the hull and reflects the real volume and size of the boat. But marinas are not interested in your Length on Deck -- they want to know in practical terms how much room your boat will occupy, so they want you to pay based on Length Overall.

Where I sail, in the UK and France, I have never once been questioned about the length of my boat -- I give them the Length on Deck number (54') and no one has ever made an issue of the fact that I have davits, protruding pulpit, etc., which brings LOA and so actual spaced used up to 60'. But I think that's just the convention over here to not charge aggressively. Marinas over here will also generally not charge you for a whole night if you arrive after midnight and turn yourself in in the morning -- they will usually charge you for a short stay, which is another kindness they show you. Marinas in the US are much more aggressive about these things, in my experience.
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Old 30-01-2014, 23:44   #39
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

Dockhead. were I kept my boat it was length of everything on the boat or length of the slip, which ever was greater.
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Old 30-01-2014, 23:47   #40
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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Richmond is home to San Quintin State prison that does most of the executions for California, located just down the road from the marina. Many apartments in the area are used as halfway houses, indeed most of the apartments have bars in the windows, even on the second floor.
Gee, San Quintin is over by Larkspur over in marin.

Actual Marina Bay is the garden spot of Richmond. Most of Richmond is a pit for sure. But there are very nice homes and condo's all around the marina, plus the bay trail, parks, etc. OK a few gang bangers at night. but less then at Berkeley or Oakland. Something about the new police department being just a block down the street.

I lived there 3 years and felt completely safe. Cutting Blvd (so apply named) on the opposite side of 580 is a completely different story. The cars have burgler bars there. Not a place to break down.
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Old 31-01-2014, 00:17   #41
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pirate Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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... Its Richmond after all. Though actually a pretty nice marina, if your not on F or G docks
What's with F n G?
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Old 31-01-2014, 01:20   #42
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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What Marina is that? Almost any marina in Clear Lake will allow you to live aboard on any size boat. Southshore harbor does not allow any live aboards, but the rest you should be OK. I know of at least 4 marinas in Clear Lake that have 27' live aboards.

I'm certain of Blue Dolphin and Marina Del Sol (where I live). I am under the impression that only Waterford does NOT have a minimum. Blue Dolphin actually raised thier size while some friends were living on a 25 footer...I told them it was because of them :-)

But to the OP: I don't know of any laws in TX, but frankly if I were running things I'd have a minimum, and maybe a "Ft per person" thing. Let's be honest, we've all seen the reason these rules show up, and (IMHO) it's not greed by the marina.
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Old 31-01-2014, 01:41   #43
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

geez i'm glad i'm on the "right" coast...
way too much legislation in Cali
thou i'm not a live aboard, i've thought about it and it far easier here...but winters are far too bloody cold....
Land of the free......lol
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Old 31-01-2014, 01:46   #44
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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Richmond is home to San Quintin State prison that does most of the executions for California, located just down the road from the marina. Many apartments in the area are used as halfway houses, indeed most of the apartments have bars in the windows, even on the second floor.
While Richmond does have a LOT of undesirable attributes, San Quentin is not one of them. There is a sort of moat, called San Francisco Bay, that separates them. Perhaps a review of geography would do you some good, mate!

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Old 31-01-2014, 02:41   #45
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Re: How strict are Live Aboard LOA restrictions?

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While Richmond does have a LOT of undesirable attributes, San Quentin is not one of them. There is a sort of moat, called San Francisco Bay, that separates them. Perhaps a review of geography would do you some good, mate!

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