how realistic are the prices on boat classified sites?

[Poche]

Finding a cared for boat is almost an oddity, I find. Whether people don't know how or money gets tight and the first thing to suffer is the boat, I don't know. A well kept boat is a sight for sore eyes kind of thing. I get blown away when I come across a well maintained boat.
The Tartan had a diesel. It seemed to run well. That was a major plus but the list of minuses vs. the positives was too overwhelming.
A lot of the boats I considered had negative values. The owners should pay someone to buy them. Even the boat I purchased had little positive value. It is not a major representation of any genre that someone would carefully restore to preserve. The purchase price was small and I am careful not to get in too deep. For example, if the diesel had not turned out so well after replacing the fuel supply system and the exhaust system I would have given the boat away. Everything else major was held up until the engine proved out.
I know sooner or later I will exceed the market value of the boat. That's how it is with boats. Anybody that buys a boat as an investment is mistaken.
When I was shopping I had allowed up to $50,000 for the purchase. If I had found one of those well kept boats I would have gladly spent that if I had liked the boat.
This one will never be restored to original or anything like it It will be decent, dependable and safe.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Poche

Finding a cared for boat is almost an oddity, I find. Whether people don't know how or money gets tight and the first thing to suffer is the boat, I don't know. A well kept boat is a sight for sore eyes kind of thing. I get blown away when I come across a well maintained boat.
The Tartan had a diesel. It seemed to run well. That was a major plus but the list of minuses vs. the positives was too overwhelming.
A lot of the boats I considered had negative values. The owners should pay someone to buy them. Even the boat I purchased had little positive value. It is not a major representation of any genre that someone would carefully restore to preserve. The purchase price was small and I am careful not to get in too deep. For example, if the diesel had not turned out so well after replacing the fuel supply system and the exhaust system I would have given the boat away. Everything else major was held up until the engine proved out.
I know sooner or later I will exceed the market value of the boat. That's how it is with boats. Anybody that buys a boat as an investment is mistaken.
When I was shopping I had allowed up to $50,000 for the purchase. If I had found one of those well kept boats I would have gladly spent that if I had liked the boat.
This one will never be restored to original or anything like it It will be decent, dependable and safe.

What I am hearing is that you would only consider boats that represented an unusually high value for what you were willing to pay, something at the low end of the price scale that you could make nice and not lose money if you sold it.

That is the Unicorn.

Boats costs money to fix up; more than they are worth.

I will guarantee you you that any day of the week, I could purchase a boat for $15K, and with $5K and some hard work, would have a nice boat. It would still have some issues . All boats do. But that is what your disposable income and then some is for, during boat ownership. If I sold that boat right after fixing it up, I would likely get $17K for it.

Any newb who looked at it would think, well I just saw one for $15K, so I’m surely not gonna pay almost double for that one. (Purchase, cost of materials, labour at nominal hourly rate).

The one thing that never astounds me, is the long list of buyers claiming boats are overpriced, owners should just drop the price to the floor and stop wasting their time, and then spend years looking for a low priced Unicorn.

Obviously, they would have saved a whole lot of time, if the eased their expectations and paid market price, for a decent example, that someone spent way, way, way more than asking, to keep that way.

If one is willing to pay FMV, they can easily find great boat in a month or so.

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by cortezsailor

Lots of thing effect pricing as well . Location is one , buying in a spot like La Paz or wherever people cruise to and don’t want to sail boat back for instance . Type of boat and rep . A mediocre 70 ‘s Valiant with blisters can still get close to 100 g . So many factors to consider but I tell people to offer 60% of asking price

As a blanket statement this is simply bad advice. I sold my previous boat for the same price I bought it for (so I didn't get back the money for the upgrades I put in but this was expected). If you had come in and offered me 60% and you were genuinely interested in the boat, you would have missed out on a well cared for boat in great condition for its age cause I would not even have dignified your offer with a reply. Same thing on my current boat. If and when I decide to sell it, I would definitely not list it playing that kind of games..So again, a low ball offer would get you a whole lot of silence and I would mark you down as a clown.

Take the time to find a good well cared for boat and meet the owner, make a fair offer for what the boat is worth to you. That's how you get a fair deal done. And remember that the most expensive boat you can buy can be the $1 dollar boat.

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by Group9

Or the seller. Just because you think it is worth x amount doesn't mean anything if no one will pay that for it.

I see sailboats that I saw for sale in 2009 when we bought our last sailboat, that are still for sale at the same price. I just wonder what the seller is thinking. That he is the only one on the planet who truly appreciates what his vessel is worth?

Well.. a bit of that but also a lot of folks are not really serious about selling and are just "putting it out there" to test the market "just in case" someone would come by and in fact pay that... "I am kinda looking to sell but not in a hurry so you know...if someone came in and paid me this much then OK I would sell her" kinda thing.

One learns to recognize those sellers and then one quickly just moves on to someone who is serious about selling. Same thing as a seller, one learns to recognize the tire kickers and low ballers quickly.

[Poche]

What I am saying is the majority of boats have not received the care and maintenance they need and their owners still want market value. Yes, a maintained boat will hold better market value.
Of course anyone that sees a poorly maintained boat wants to buy as low as possible. Anyone would.
And as you say, someone could put some time and money into these deferred maintenance boats but you really are just reselling your time and materials with little or no profit if you do your own work. If you have the work done professionally, you will lose a lot of money unless you keep the boat and make use of it.

[Poche]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

As a blanket statement this is simply bad advice.

No, it is not. Two professional guides for valuation, BUC and NADA, give much different values for a boat based on location.

[Sand crab]

The OP specifically addressed the catamaran market. The discussions about monos is not relevant because of the hurricanes and the increasing popularity of cats which have skewed prices.

[capn_billl]

The cat market is a little ugly right now for buyers. There are few boats, the several I've offered on had multiple offers, and the seller priced accordingly.

There are bargains out there, but finding a seller tired of waiting for top dollar takes time, and effort.

Right now finding a boat less than $200k that isn't a piece of junk takes diligent searching.

[earthbm]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

I sold my previous boat for the same price I bought it for (so I didn't get back the money for the upgrades I put in but this was expected). If you had come in and offered me 60% and you were genuinely interested in the boat, you would have missed out on a well cared for boat in great condition for its age cause I would not even have dignified your offer with a reply. Same thing on my current boat.

Yep. And there are people still driving their “well cared for in great condition for their age” Oldsmobiles...

The beauty of the market is that, while somewhat random, it’s generally not full of BS. If you list the boat and no one offers you the list price in 1-2-3 months, the truth is lower than where you thought it was.

This means that pretty much every boat listed now is overpriced, or it would’ve sold shortly after, or sometimes even before, its listing.

The Wiley Sharp data shows boats selling for 10% below list price on average, but it’s the final list price, after who knows how many reductions.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by earthbm

Yep. And there are people still driving their “well cared for in great condition for their age” Oldsmobiles...

The beauty of the market is that, while somewhat random, it’s generally not full of BS. If you list the boat and no one offers you the list price in 1-2-3 months, the truth is lower than where you thought it was.

This means that pretty much every boat listed now is overpriced, or it would’ve sold shortly after, or sometimes even before, its listing.

The Wiley Sharp data shows boats selling for 10% below list price on average, but it’s the final list price, after who knows how many reductions.

When I perform valuations, I give the seller 3 prices,
a) 30 day price
b) 90 day price
C) 6 month price

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

The cat market is a little ugly right now for buyers. There are few boats, the several I've offered on had multiple offers, and the seller priced accordingly.

There are bargains out there, but finding a seller tired of waiting for top dollar takes time, and effort.

Right now finding a boat less than $200k that isn't a piece of junk takes diligent searching.

Didn't you just buy a cat? Forum rules dictate that you have to tell us the details.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

The cat market is a little ugly right now for buyers. There are few boats, the several I've offered on had multiple offers, and the seller priced accordingly.

There are bargains out there, but finding a seller tired of waiting for top dollar takes time, and effort.

Right now finding a boat less than $200k that isn't a piece of junk takes diligent searching.

I'm guessing the Volvo Penta D1 series recall is also distorting prices for cats at least in the U.S. You've got a whole bunch of 7-10 year old cats that have 2 brand new engines which is going to drive up their value in real and price terms. This impacted entire fleets, so for example getting a Mahe 36 is probably going to cost you more now than it would have 3 years ago just before the recall was announced.

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by Poche

No, it is not. Two professional guides for valuation, BUC and NADA, give much different values for a boat based on location.

that's not what I said...I meant offering 60% from asking price as a blanket statement or some sort of rule is not a good advice if you are serious about buying.

[Cadence]

How many times do you see the announcements of drastic reductions in price, multiple times, until the price is down to a realistic asking price. A smart seller would save maintenance and storage costs starting with a near realistic price. OK leave a little wiggle room.

[jmorrison146]

In the US, sailboats in the 40-50' range are selling at about 95% of the asking price. It's easy to track how long they've been on the market but harder to track price reductions.