How much will European seller agree to lower price?

[Sea Frog]

Getting to more active stage of choosing my "temporaty boat" now, I am closely looking at the european market (mainly because we would like to spend a couple years in the Meds before moving West). Now, I "know" that sellers on US market are sometimes willing to negotiate and to go even 50% lower than the original asking price (with 30% is being a realistic average), but I was told that European owners hardly move at all. They would keep the price for years, maybe slowly lowering it, but they supposedly reject any "realistic lowball" offers

How true is that? Judging by your experience, how much is it possible to persuade the seller to lower the price? I am mostly interested in mass-production boats, like some models of Bene (I know, I know

Thank you for any input!

[valhalla360]

Buying used, saying anything is "typical" is wrong. I wouldn't count on a 30% reduction as typical in the USA. You see boats here on the market for years also. All depends on the owner and what his motivation is.

Just picked up a boat in Spain from a UK individual for well under the asking price but he wanted a quick sale.

[more]

Originally Posted by Sea Frog

Getting to more active stage of choosing my "temporaty boat" now, I am closely looking at the european market (mainly because we would like to spend a couple years in the Meds before moving West). Now, I "know" that sellers on US market are sometimes willing to negotiate and to go even 50% lower than the original asking price (with 30% is being a realistic average), but I was told that European owners hardly move at all. They would keep the price for years, maybe slowly lowering it, but they supposedly reject any "realistic lowball" offers

How true is that? Judging by your experience, how much is it possible to persuade the seller to lower the price? I am mostly interested in mass-production boats, like some models of Bene (I know, I know

Thank you for any input!

depends country (1-10%) usually price is fixed

[travellerw]

This question has been asked over and over, please do a search.

In short, there is no answer. Its what the market is willing to pay. The market is very slow right now and every "asking" price is negotiable. During my search, I offered as low as 1/2 on some boats. In the end I bought a boat from a European for over %30 off asking.

[Celestialsailor]

Yes....the question has been asked before and again. So I will gift you with my answer in the past. Keep reducing your offer price until the seller punches you in the nose...then you'll know that was too low.
If someone made a 50% or even 30% off offer, to me, they would be driving home holding a hanky to they're face.

[travellerw]

The selling price is what the market is willing to pay. If the market for your boat is one guy and he is willing to give you %50, then that is the market value at that moment. You always have the option of rejecting the offer and waiting the market out (i.e. someone willing to pay more comes along).

Why anyone would get mad at someone for making an offer is beyond me. No one gets angry when someone asks too much for thier boat (you would be punching %80 of the owners on Yachtworld), why the hell would you get angry when someone offers what they are willing to pay? I've even heard people say "I will burn it before I sell it for that". I just shake my head and think of all the rotting boats tied to docks.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by travellerw

Why anyone would get mad at someone for making an offer is beyond me. No one gets angry when someone asks too much for thier boat (you would be punching %80 of the owners on Yachtworld), why the hell would you get angry when someone offers what they are willing to pay? I've even heard people say "I will burn it before I sell it for that". I just shake my head and think of all the rotting boats tied to docks.

I hadn't thought of it this way before.

I guess I have the right to go beat the snot out of the owner of any overpriced boat on the market.

Seriously unless they were offensive about it, a polite "no thank you, your offer is too low", is the appropriate response. The rest is internet bluster.

[robert sailor]

Pretty easy to buy a cheap boat and sometimes any offer will be taken. Show me some quality boats in excellent shape that were purchased for 30% or 50% below market value and I'll eat my shirt😕

[hoppy]

It all depends on how optimistic they were when setting the advertised price. Unless someone is desperate, they are likely to only drop to a reasonable market price. Or at least that's what I'd do if selling.

My boats seller only budged a little but it was already listed cheap to start with.


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[travellerw]

Originally Posted by hoppy

It all depends on how optimistic they were when setting the advertised price. Unless someone is desperate, they are likely to only drop to a reasonable market price. Or at least that's what I'd do if selling.

My boats seller only budged a little but it was already listed cheap to start with.


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The real question.. How do you determine a "Resonable Market Price". Where does that number come from? Who makes it up?

The market price is what the buyers are willing to pay at that moment. It has LITTLE to do with:
a) What other boats are listed for!
b) What the seller thinks its worth, or needs to get!
c) What a broker says its worth!
d) What other boats sold for in the past!

The market is very soft right now with few buyers. Understanding where to price a boat is an important thing. In my search, I seen so many sellers "start" at the top of the price point cause "they can always come down". Months go by before they do actually come down. In the mean time, potential buyers have left the market without ever seeing that boat as it was out of thier bracket.

This is the same for any object you want to sell. The goal is to not leave any money on the table, but not scare away potential buyers.

[robert sailor]

Actually your item D sales in the past is the key. If there have been recent sales of a similar boat then that is the best gauge of the market.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by travellerw

The real question.. How do you determine a "Resonable Market Price". Where does that number come from? Who makes it up?

The market price is what the buyers are willing to pay at that moment. It has LITTLE to do with:
a) What other boats are listed for!
b) What the seller thinks its worth, or needs to get!
c) What a broker says its worth!
d) What other boats sold for in the past!

The market is very soft right now with few buyers. Understanding where to price a boat is an important thing. In my search, I seen so many sellers "start" at the top of the price point cause "they can always come down". Months go by before they do actually come down. In the mean time, potential buyers have left the market without ever seeing that boat as it was out of thier bracket.

This is the same for any object you want to sell. The goal is to not leave any money on the table, but not scare away potential buyers.

You are in the mistaken belief that everyone is desperate to sell. Sure you can come in with a low value and if it's a motivated seller, maybe you'll get lucky. But if the seller has set his advertised and willing to sell for prices based on your points A to D, and there is no desperate need, to sell, then you need to make a reasonable offer.

In a buyers market you can find bargains, just don't fool yourself to believe that all boats can be had for a bargain price.


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[travellerw]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Actually your item D sales in the past is the key. If there have been recent sales of a similar boat then that is the best gauge of the market.

I disagree. Even a month can make all the difference in the world. A month ago, there could have been 2 or 3 people on the market looking for that particular boat. Maybe 2 have moved on and there is only a single buyer on the market now. Now the market value would be what he/she is willing to pay at that point in time, or you wait for a market change (new buyer on the market).

However, the recent sales numbers can give the seller a starting point for pricing.

[hoppy]

The last few months I have been trying to sell on consignment my car in Sweden. It is a low milage Merc SL55AMG. In spring I priced it based on the advertised prices at the time. Nothing was happening other than one optimistically low offer which I laughed at. I looked again at the market and sure enough prices were lower, so I told the dealer a new price and gave him some wriggle room, still well above the joke offer. It was still priced at the high end as it is a 12 year old car with only 50k km on the clock.

It was costing me nothing to have the car sitting at the dealers, insurance was paid for and not going to make much of an impact if I paid again. I owed nothing on the car and now live on my boat in Greece, so I did' need the money from the sale, besides my bank ac is healthy from selling my apartment.

Given the type of car it is, it is probably a buyers market, but I had no motivation to sell for anything other than a reasonable price.

It sold on the weekend for the minimum I was expecting. The buyer got a good car at a reasonable price.

The same can happen with the boat you really want. So just don't assume everyone is willing to get screed by a cashed up buyer


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[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Pretty easy to buy a cheap boat and sometimes any offer will be taken. Show me some quality boats in excellent shape that were purchased for 30% or 50% below market value and I'll eat my shirt��

The problem with answering you is you have to define "excellent shape" and "market value".

The last 2 boats we bought fit that description but because you use to nebulous terms, we could argue for weeks and never come to agreement if we got it below market value.

Buying and selling cruising boats is not like buying F150's where there are 10's of thousands sold every year and you can really dial in the market value. It is much more subjective but there is also a lot of variability.

We passed on a couple of boats that were more expensive and in worse shape and the owners weren't budging. We got a nicer boat for less and it was about 30% less than the original asking price (which was less than these other boats), so we feel we got a good deal.