How much is enough??

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Zeus

. Now let's get really crazy and ASSume that Social Security is around when we reach the benefit age and we will cruise like kings. ......

I don't think there is any Social Security in OZ for those that had the sense to look after themselves.

Just lot's of tax.

Dave

[ess105]

I think it's the same in the UK. You can have two couples living next door to each other on equivalent wages all their lives. One couple diligently saves, the other blows their spare cash on pubs, cars and holidays. Guess who the state helps when they retire.

Theoretically, here in the US, if you pay your social security, you get it when you retire. Question is - will there be money in the kitty when we qualify?

[beginner]

Are these estimates what it would take with no other income? My wife and I are going to retire in the fall and we'll have a retirement income of about 55 to 60k after taxes. We expect to live aboard and cruise mostly the Florida coasts and the Carribean for about 5 years.

[ess105]

Beginner - the general theme you'll find is that it'll cost what you've got (and probably a bit more). For some cruisers $55k to $60k pa is excessive, for others it is not enough. It's going to be down to you and your needs.

You will find some interesting data points on this survey http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...olls-6768.html. The questions here are relative in nature so should give you some ideas of relative expenses, etc.

[SkiprJohn]

I've tried to understand this thread but haven't gotten it yet. I've known folks that cruised for years on a very small military retirement plus renting out their home, i. e. $1000 a month. That's after they have paid for boat and all gear. They sold some arts and crafts as they went and cared for homes of people they met. Beautiful people with generous souls.
Is that what you're asking?
I'm not waiting for a cruising kitty to get big enough. I'm waiting for my boat to magically be finished. Anyway, I'm working on it.
I think some folks will think that they need way more than they do and will postpone their cruising until their age and health will no longer permit it.
Regards,
JohnL

[Charlie]

My understanding is that this is a theoretical question. What would it take $$$$ wise for you to leave now. Here's my criteria : paid for house, paid for boat, $250k in the bank, and a steady income of $65k a year after taxes.


But the family would have to be willing to go with me or all bets are off. I guess that puts me in the $1m and up class.

All that said I would go with less. Alot less.

[Zeus]

My wife and I cannot retire until the last two kids (twins) are out of high school. If they and my oldest go to college it may be a couple of years longer. But at the latest we are talking about 20 years from now. As stated before I am not depending on Social Security for obvious reasons. The question that cannot be answered at this time is how much will it take to cruise modestly in 20 years. Now it looks like 36k per year will afford a very nice cruising lifestyle assuming your boat is paid for. The unknown is what will it take when Heather and I retire. If all goes well we will have approx. 10-18k per month to retire on w/o SS but I have doubts that will be enough. That figure is also assuming an 8% return on our investments. Unfortunately I do not thing all will pan out with the market. So then what? From what I can tell on this forum cruising is only getting more expensive. With the cost of fuel, maint., entry/exit fees, it seems to becoming a rich mans life. In 20 years I do not think 2 mil will be considered rich and if living my current, if not meager then comfortable, lifestyle that amount will not be enough. The wife and I have already begun to rethink our retirement plans based on this thinking. Hopefully I am wrong but only time will tell.
Zeus.

[ess105]

Zeus,

20 years is a very long time. I don't think you can really dismiss any dream that far out. A lot can change in that time which may make some dreams more realistic or bring other dreams into focus. However, one thing is constant. If you're looking to retire young (usually is the case if you're talking kids out of high school) then you've got to save as much as you can and you've got to invest wisely. If you match the US indices (approx 11% long term) look what that does instead of 8%. May not happen that way but the point is, you don't know so I wouldn't cast away your dreams just yet. Alternatively, you may decide you are just as happy on a smaller budget or you may want to make it a temporary leave of absence.

[S/V Elusive]

There is a LOT of "cruise forever" or until you "aren't able". Those are too subjective to pull any meaningful conclusions from. I think that a defined limit to the number of years expected cruising would be better. But, then, do you also include what it would cost to live when you are done with cruising.

I also don't think that "cruising forever" is realistic (for the many stated reasons previous to this).

For me .. I think that 5 years cruising is a realistic amount of time. I do not think that returning to California (USA) would be viable after that. Where would I go, and what would I do is unclear. If going back to work after cruising is desired (either required or wanted), then it would have to be where I am eligible to work, and where 5 years of NOT being in the work force wouldn't count against me.

The not being in the work force for 5 years is the killer (for me). How could an employer reasonably expect someone who has been foot-loose and fancy-free for 5 years to be able to come back and do a 9-5 job, remain current in practices associated with the profession, and remember the things that make you (GREAT? ) valuable to an employer now.

In 5 years time, a LOT of drastic things can happen. Hell, it may be the ISLAND of California by then. There are so many uncertainties and variables, that I believe there are two basic approaches to this: 1) Go and worry about it when you get back and, 2) Do the huge planning and stashing of wealth (and hope nothing disturbs that) and wait to go.

In truth, I don't think that there are very many of us who can do either - we believe that we can be somewhere inbetween and do okay. ::shrug:: There is no easy answer.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Charlie,
Just my opinion but that seems like an awfully lot? How you going to spend all that money?
Just applied for SSN Retirement. Will let you know when the first check arrives. There will be a party.
Regards,
JohnL

[Charlie]

Hi John:

It is alot of $$$. Especially with the price of a house in CA. As I understood it this is a theoretical What would it take to go right now question. I'm sure that is a lot but taxes on the house will run $500 a month, insurance on the house another $150 then there is boat insurance etc. etc.it all adds up. But as I think about it it could be more linked to what my cruising reality is while I like the idea of ging crusing for 5 or 10 years given the kids are in 3rd an5th grade and the Admiral likes to plant a garden I think that my cruising is going to be limited to "Commuter Cruising." Three to six months on the boat and then dry storage for the rest of the year. Similar to Sunspot Baby.

I've got the boat paid for. That's a start.

BTW when I get to retirement for SS I bet you the retirement age will be 75 or so. I might get anickle back for every dollar that I put in.

Good Luck with retirement though. I wish you well. Maybe we'll hook up in PNW or Mexico or Hawaii for that matter.

[maxingout]

Originally Posted by Zeus

My wife and I cannot retire until the last two kids (twins) are out of high school. If they and my oldest go to college it may be a couple of years longer. But at the latest we are talking about 20 years from now. As stated before I am not depending on Social Security for obvious reasons. The question that cannot be answered at this time is how much will it take to cruise modestly in 20 years. Now it looks like 36k per year will afford a very nice cruising lifestyle assuming your boat is paid for. The unknown is what will it take when Heather and I retire. If all goes well we will have approx. 10-18k per month to retire on w/o SS but I have doubts that will be enough. That figure is also assuming an 8% return on our investments. Unfortunately I do not thing all will pan out with the market. So then what? From what I can tell on this forum cruising is only getting more expensive. With the cost of fuel, maint., entry/exit fees, it seems to becoming a rich mans life. In 20 years I do not think 2 mil will be considered rich and if living my current, if not meager then comfortable, lifestyle that amount will not be enough. The wife and I have already begun to rethink our retirement plans based on this thinking. Hopefully I am wrong but only time will tell.
Zeus.

How much is enough depends on where you cruise.

United Nations statistics say that most people in the world survive on $2 each day.

If a person has $2000 in the bank, he is in the 50th percentile for wealth in the entire world.

If a person has assets of $500,000, he is in the 95th percentile for wealth in the world.

Infrastructure is expensive to buy and mantain. If you have a lot of stuff in your life, you will need a lot of money. If you live outside the USA and Europe,and if you don't have a lot of infrastructure, you can live on very little. And if you get sick, don't even think about getting your healthcare in the USA. Go somewhere that it is affordable.

There are tens of thousands of cruising destinations that are affordable for the average man or woman on a small yacht. If I waited to go cruising till it was "affordable", I would never have started an eleven year circumnavigation when I was 46 years old. Life is risky, but for me the greatest risk of all was waiting to live my dreams until I could afford them. Ask my friends who died in their forties and fifties.

People who cruise young commit themselves to a fundamental principle that less is more. The currency of their life is their youth and health - both non-renewable assets. They know they can always get more money if they need it.

Cheers,

Dave
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[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Dave,
Well put.
JohnL

[exranger]

Excellent, Dave!!

I used to be one of those who was always working on that cruising kitty -- of ourse, there were braces for kids, new cras, etc., that pushed that timeline out further every year. And if it wasn't some unseen expense, it was that creeping materialism that made me think I needed more and more money to "do it right".

Finally, I did it, or started it at least. I bought a boat i could easily afford. I fixed/am fixing it as I go along. Cruising up and down the Florida coast, learning and living. Started an online business and other ways to make what has turned out to be a very small amount of NEEDED money to enjoy life.

In the marina that is my home base, there is a couple who are in their late 50's/early 60's. They've both been working for 30 years so they can retire and cruise. They haven't had time to really learn to sail, so their boat sits in the slip. They're having trouble selling the repair business they have both worked for 30 years -- to increase their cruising kitty -- so their departure is still being delayed. They both suffer from high blood pressure now and are overweight and facing many aches and pains that will make learning to sail tough on them. Nice people, really. They're really close to reaching their goal for the right cruising kitty. Maybe one of them will live long enough to make it out of their slip for an overnight.....

Go now. Buy a boat you can afford. Learn to sail it well. I wish I had not waited as long as I had. Making up lost time by discarding all those things that really don't matter, the 1,000's of possessions that really possessed ME.

[GordMay]

As an inveterate collector & spender, I can offer some hope to others.
It’s very difficult to REDUCE your spending patterns, especially when the income is still flowing.
Notwithstanding, once the cruising starts - it’s much easier to STOP self-indulgent (discretionary) spending altogether.
It’s like smoking, or any other nasty habit. Quitting entirely, is much easier than cutting down.
Prior to any purchase, ask yourself: “what is this replacing?”; then remember to actually discard the replaced item.