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View Poll Results: How much is enough (before you feel you can stop working and retire and go sailing)?
$1000 to $100,000 73 21.92%
$100,000 to $500,000 81 24.32%
$500,000 to $1,000,000 76 22.82%
$1,000,000 to $100,000,000,000,000,000s 103 30.93%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-12-2007, 11:12   #211
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Costs & working

I read an interesting article recently concerning the cost of cruising from Lin and Larry Pardey and it makes a lot of sence.
In many of their articles and books they state that they work about 3 months and cruise for 9.. but the article I read recently said that those that had an independant income and DID-NOT work along the way, found themselves moving on and not getting involved with the people and the area they were cruising.. and thus, missed out on what they thought was one of the great fortunes of cruising..
By working while your out, even for a few weeks at a time, It not only supports you while your there but you do get to know the area and the people living there..........
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:47   #212
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lost the thread for a while...
No, I'm not going to sell drugs. Just smuggle them!
okay, not really.
Considering this will be the boat that will carry me around the world for many years I don't think 150K is out of line, espically since I want a cat. I figure by the time I get around to buying one in a few years 150k should be about right for an ex charter 38-42'cat (including some refitting). This is going to be the big one, so I'm not going to leave on a boat that "will have to do". In my opinion one of the best ways to cruise on a budget is to start off with a well found (yet simple) boat with fresh vital systems.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:29   #213
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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
By working while your out, even for a few weeks at a time, It not only supports you while your there but you do get to know the area and the people living there..........
You're right but there is nothing stopping anyone getting involved for free. There are a number of very inspiring stories of cruisers giving their time gratis, involving themselves with local communities, sharing their western acquired skills. Having said that, it's good to point out the upside of having to work for a while.
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Old 12-12-2007, 13:18   #214
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This is such a personal question, and it touches on so many points. Hunger. Fear. Desire. Uncertainty. I have a very dear friend who is a much more accomplished yachtsman than I. When I first met him in 2002, he was living aboard his 45-foot ketch, and about to embark on a Caribbean cruise. I was in awe of the man. He could fix anything, and owed nothing on his boat. I left before him, and came back stateside to make money, leaving the boat along the trip. Every year that I returned, he was still living aboard and planning his escape. Now, five years later, I've gone about 20,000 miles, and he's still living aboard and planning his escape. Money represents security in the American mindset, but to go cruising is the antithesis of security--you're a very small boat in a very big ocean, and no one cares about your social status at sea. Hence the idea of "financially secure" cruising is a chimera for the vast majority outside of the lucky sperm club. The important thing is to go. Now. The answers will reveal themselves along the way. You will not starve. I promise.
Well I'm not from the lucky sperm club. I read about liveaboards and cruising. To me there is a big difference. Could someone explain the difference to me. Cruising to me is like taking a vacation with plans on going back to the old life style. Liveaboards is someone that doesn't want to be tied down. If they want to go some place they go.

I will become a liveaboard soon and do it like I have all my life.
I raised a family on not much more than SS and have no retirement program. In fact 1,200 month before taxes. So I know I can do it and I will on my SS. But then I don't have CC's or bank loans. I have dealt in cash all my life. It's easy to do. You pay cash or do without. No big deal. When I go off to work its for me not off to work I go because I owe.
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Old 12-12-2007, 13:24   #215
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A liveaboard can also be someone who uses a boat as a floating version of a house. Works a normal job, sends kids to school, has a car, etc. etc.

IMHO a cruiser is someone who travels. They may stay in one location for a season or two, but then move on. Cruisers can live permanently on their boats, but don't stay permanently fixed in one location.
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Old 12-12-2007, 13:33   #216
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I don't really use the term "cruising" to be honest, nor do I use "liveaboard", even though technically I do both I suppose.

You can split sailing into three slices for the most part: racing, day sailing, and cruising. So if you look at it like that, it's fairly open ended.

Basically cruising, in my book, means that you're not primarily racing and you do more than day sailing. Anything further is "cruising", so it's obviously a really open definition. Maybe some might say that there's also "coastal cruising", but that's really splitting hairs. The vast majority of a cruising boat's life is spent on an anchor anyway, so when someone says they were "sailing for 5 years", it's entirely probable that they could have been hanging out in the same place for at least one of those years. Where they technically "cruising" during that time? Who knows.

But you don't need to be rich to do it, by any means. If you're in Texas, you could certainly cruise your way up to Maine if you desired, working along the way when you found work, staying in certain areas longer than others if it seemed to be a good fit. Cruising doesn't automatically imply that you're leaving your own country for a multi year adventure; you can be sort of a saling vagabond in your own land, especially in such a large country like the US.

Some other people in Texas might split for South America. It's cheap down there, so maybe you hang there for a while, then get an email from someone who wants to hire you back in the states. You fly back, leave the boat secured, work and save up some more money, then fly out again. Or maybe you get a job teaching English.

Sure, if you're in debt (to the IRS, your boat's mortage holding bank, credit cards, etc) then you need to take care of that because it's an obligation you signed yourself up for. But there's no requirement that your definition of "cruising" be the same as anyone else's, and it certainly shouldn't be definitions revolving around saving up $100K before you even leave the dock.

Most cruising boats never leave the docks.
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Old 12-12-2007, 13:57   #217
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Thanks guys for the reply. Would be nice if someone wanted to hire this old guy. lol I'm looking at a small 23' to learn on then sell it and my rv home and buy a larger boat 30' and cruise and liveaboard. I wanted to learn to sail up in the San Juan's when we were still in Montana but that didn't work out so now it will be learning down here. Just take a little longer to get the experience I feel I need to sail across the gulf. I'd like to see S.A.

Take care
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Old 12-12-2007, 14:58   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post
, a boat that is up to the task cannot be had for under $200K and if you do not have enough funds invested to provide at least $5K per month at a 2% return on investment then you doomed to despair and failure. Terry


Hi Terry,

I think you've hit the nail on the head If we read and believe everything on T'interweb, even forums(!!) we would be too scared to sail out of the harbour because of storms, pirates, rampant Coast Guards trying to steal our boats etc; but of course we wouldn't have bought one in the first place because the cost, as you point out, of a 'seaworthy' boat is huge. Further, the price of sitting anchored by some island for a month costs us more than if we are at home paying rents, car, petrol etc etc etc??????
Americans have a great phrase: "Go figure!"

So how does one work out what can be done and at what cost? Perhaps go off shore racing, preferably as a crew member in production cruiser / racers. Not straight racing yachts. If you think you are in a particular type of price bracket go find one that needs a crew member.
When people are racing they have larger crews and they press the boat harder, often too hard, and you see how it handles the conditions and what breaks.

I have given up racing because that competitive bit has gone out of me, but I have seen almost every boat available being raced where I am lucky enough to live. You will soon see what crappy old, clapped out, or cheaply built boats can actually do! You don't need a million dollars for a boat. You don't break half a million dollars of equipment each year, and a fiberglass boat with a modern diesel is all but maintenance freeish. (yes, you will still always have a job list).

So, my advice is to try and get some time racing on other peoples boats (they are cheaper to break!) and read the forums for their positive advice, not the pessimistic advice. Cos if you listen to that you will never get out of your lounge room


Mark
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Old 12-12-2007, 15:39   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post
"Security" and particularly financial security is largely a myth. Nobody can tell the future and no investment is 100% safe. US entitlement programs are underfunded over the next 35 years by over 40 Trillion dollars. Does anyone really think that dollar denominated value of investments is not going to be eroded as this shortfall is financed through inflation of the currency?

<snip>

If I die penniless then I go out exactly the same as Warren Buffet... nobody gets out alive and we all go with exactly what we came in with: nothing.

Terry
In my opinion, if those who read Cruisers Forum never learn anything beyond the portion of Terry's post, quoted above, they will still have enriched themselves beyond measure.

The first paragraph, above, should be the basis for all of one's investing, going forward.

The second item, above, could well be all of the philosophy one needs to live a successful life.

A person could do much worse than printing out Terry's quoted material, and putting it somewhere where it will be seen and read regularly.

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Old 12-12-2007, 15:39   #220
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Cool Rule of 72

Quote:
So from reading through this thread, it would appear that inflation will destroy the return on any investments you have
That is right.

There is a rule of 72

It works for return and inflation.
If you divide 72 by your expected net return it will give you the amount of years your investment will take to double eg. 7% net return, 72 divided by 7 = 10. If you could get a 7% net return on your money it would double in 10 years.

If you divide 72 by the expected rate of inflation it will give you the amount of years your investment will halve in value If inflation is say 4%pa, 72 divided by 4= 18 years.

That means that at 4% inflation, that million dollars will only buy $500K in 18 years.

That is why inflation is not a "red herring" It is worse than rust.
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Old 12-12-2007, 15:49   #221
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Quote:
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A 10 year refresh of all boat systems on a 10 year old 44 ft catamaran would be

10k for new sails
1k for running rigging
1k for revamped or new ground tackle
6k for new electronics
5k for new interior fabric
8k new cockpit enclosure
1k in electrical work
6k for refrigeration and freezer
------------------------------
38k for complete systems refresh plus whatever needs to be done for engines, which if they've been maintained well could be nothing at all.

Spend more than that every year?!
Is that $10k for new sails correct????

My last cat's wardrobe cost near $9000 10 years ago at mates rates (cruise lam on a 32 footer Main, working, blade and big mylar No1)

When deciding if building power or sail, the quotes for a main on a stretched 42 footer (to 46) were $9500 just for the main and that was 3 years ago.

After 5 years the sails on my 32 footer were getting pretty sad and I doubt the main or Mylar No 1 would have got another year from them.

( had a major first reef blowout delivering to New Cal for new owner)

Dave
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Old 12-12-2007, 16:15   #222
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That is why inflation is not a "red herring" It is worse than rust.
Exactly!

Inflation is, in fact, a stealth tax, as many others have noted. Although the intention of the powers-that-be in government is to borrow (and spend) current dollars and then repay the debt with devalued future dollars, the devastating practical effect in the life of the ordinary citizen is devaluation of his accumulated wealth.

Think of an hourglass, with fine sand pouring through the central aperture. The purchasing power of your accumulated wealth - what you've managed to save from your years of labor, net of taxes and all other expenses - is represented by the sand in the top chamber of the hourglass.

The rate of inflation is represented by the diameter of the aperture through which the sand - your money's purchasing power - is pouring. As your wealth falls inexorably through that opening, the amount you still have is constantly decreasing. That is, the purchasing power of your wealth is evaporating.

Thank those in charge of your government, and their enablers at your central bank.

TaoJones
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Old 12-12-2007, 18:02   #223
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Its kinda odd how terms change when you do cut lose. We've been out for 4 years now and in just that short of a time, "Asset Allocation" now means I can only have 4 cookies before dinner, "Annual Average Growth" is that green stuff growing on the bottom, saying I've been here to long, And a "Quality Return" is that big fish I caught off of that little fish I had a hook in.
You'll find that some things, just dont matter anymore..
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Old 12-12-2007, 18:20   #224
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Quote:
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You'll find that some things, just dont matter anymore..
But you still read a subject like "How Much is Enough??" ...or were you expecting it to be about How Much Fish should I catch to be Enough for Dinner?


Have fun!
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Old 12-12-2007, 20:49   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
Its kinda odd how terms change when you do cut lose. We've been out for 4 years now and in just that short of a time, "Asset Allocation" now means I can only have 4 cookies before dinner, "Annual Average Growth" is that green stuff growing on the bottom, saying I've been here to long, And a "Quality Return" is that big fish I caught off of that little fish I had a hook in.
You'll find that some things, just dont matter anymore..
and all the way to post 223
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