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Old 30-03-2014, 11:51   #46
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Re: How much is enough?

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
How extensively do you wish to cruise?
Caribbean
Europe and the Med
Pacific
Round the world (RTW)
If going RTW will you go thru the Suez, around Cape of Africa or will you ship the boat?

Do you want to go into high latitudes, Chile, Alaska, Iceland, Norway, Cape Horn?

These answers affect the boat you should have and the costs and maintenance.
Honestly.... We'd love to sail around the world but we're also concerned that this would be more than we could chew. We are sadly at that beginning stage where we don't know what we don't know.

Shipping from one major destination to the next is probably not a bad thought and something I had not considred before. Just because we're not suited for doing an Atlantic crossing doesn't mean that I couldn't get someone else to do it for me :-) I had read somewhere that many delivery captains will charge about 250.00 per day (or 1000.00 per day if the owner is aboard). I laughed when I read that and understood the reasons immediately. I assumed that this would be for something like delivering from BVI to somewhere in the Eastern United States. Are the rates similar for passage crossings?

One thing I can tell you is that if I ever suggested that we sail somewhere north like Alaska, I wouldn't have to worry about my wife any more.... Divorce papers would show up shortly after I made the suggestion ;-) She's very much a warm weather girl.
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Old 30-03-2014, 11:54   #47
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Re: How much is enough?

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You are not sure what you want because you do not know enough about boats yet. Take some sailing classes and charter some boats in order to increase your knowledge of boats.

Do not make the mistake of buying a boat first and then learning more about boating. The chances of buying the wrong boat for you are much greater until you learn more about boats.

It's a hard lesson to buy a boat only to find out it is the wrong boat for you. It takes seemingly forever to sell a boat at the price you want.
Of this I am in complete agreement and it was never my intent to do other than exactly what you are suggesting.

Thanks very much.
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Old 30-03-2014, 12:11   #48
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Re: How much is enough?

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One thing I can tell you is that if I ever suggested that we sail somewhere north like Alaska, I wouldn't have to worry about my wife any more.... Divorce papers would show up shortly after I made the suggestion ;-) She's very much a warm weather girl.
Wifey B: That's what we said about Alaska. Understand that I'm the type who if I'm wearing both pieces of a bikini, I feel overdressed. I like warm weather, but.....

June 1 we start our Alaska Adventure. Actually, cruising still in the state of Washington until we transit toward Ketchikan on the 12th, planning to arrive there on the 14th. We finally return from Alaska, leaving Sitka on the 17th of July and arriving in Port Angeles, WA on the 19th. Then we check out Victoria and Vancouver before ending our cruise. All subject to change and the more we plan this trip the more we both look forward to it. Now on a sail boat, I don't hear of many doing that. But I look forward to seeing the beauty and the glaciers. Not my regular kind of things but for a once in a lifetime experience, yes.

So don't bet against it ever happening. Just not now. Guess I have to be ready to layer clothes. I did like in NC until two years ago so not like I haven't faced cold and your wife lives in cold now. I do look forward to 16 and 17 hours of daylight.
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Old 30-03-2014, 12:35   #49
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Re: How much is enough?

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Shipping from one major destination to the next is probably not a bad thought and something I had not considred before. Just because we're not suited for doing an Atlantic crossing doesn't mean that I couldn't get someone else to do it for me :-) I had read somewhere that many delivery captains will charge about 250.00 per day (or 1000.00 per day if the owner is aboard). I laughed when I read that and understood the reasons immediately. I assumed that this would be for something like delivering from BVI to somewhere in the Eastern United States. Are the rates similar for passage crossings?
Friends moved their 65' trawler from the Med to the Caribbean in 2012 and I believe they paid about $40K CAD for Dockwise's float-on float-off service. If doing the crossing on her own bottom, in addition to paying a delivery skipper you have to take into account additional insurance for a crossing, not to mention ensuring she is sound for the voyage & repairing whatever wear and tear results. Most of the Superyachts, some of which do the crossing twice a year, do not cross on their own bottoms; there are reasons for that.
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Old 30-03-2014, 16:50   #50
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Re: How much is enough?

Look at Catamarans - they are much more 'wife' friendly. Actually much more friendly in many other ways also.

Ok - back on track. Your budget seems high to me. We know $500.00 is not realistic to cruise. That $5000.00 will make cruising very pleasant. Any more than $5000.00 is just bonus. Learn to suba, go someplace warm and enjoy life.



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Old 30-03-2014, 17:12   #51
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Re: How much is enough?

I dont understand this bit...

Boat cost -
$800,000.00 (Initial downpayment $160,000.00, Balance owing $640,000)
Monthly Payment -
$6,000.00 (120,000.00 per year - Boat paid for in 10 years give or take)

So you are planning on paying around 1.35 M for an 800k boat? What is the benifit to you from not buying it outright initially?
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Old 30-03-2014, 17:49   #52
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Re: How much is enough?

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I dont understand this bit...

Boat cost -
$800,000.00 (Initial downpayment $160,000.00, Balance owing $640,000)
Monthly Payment -
$6,000.00 (120,000.00 per year - Boat paid for in 10 years give or take)

So you are planning on paying around 1.35 M for an 800k boat? What is the benifit to you from not buying it outright initially?
Well, his math went awry with $6,000 x 12 turning into $120,000. Now multiplying correctly you get $72,000 per year or a total of $720,000 in payments, which is about right at 2% interest rate which he quoted himself being able to borrow for 2-3%.
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Old 30-03-2014, 17:56   #53
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Re: How much is enough?

640K borrowed @ 2.5% = about 6k/month or about 84K when amortized over 10 years. Total interest paid about 84K.

640K invested @ 5% = 32,000K per year x 10 years = 320K. If compounded, significantly more.

320K - 84K = benefit of 236K
.................
6K per month x 12 = 72K/year so not sure where the 120K/year comes from. 2.5% to borrow sounds low but possible.
5% return on investment is conservative.

My math isn't always the best but the logic is sound if the investment return is significantly greater than the cost of borrowing. I've done it myself.
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Old 30-03-2014, 18:12   #54
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Re: How much is enough?

OK but, why borrow and not buy it outright? Maybe he can make more interest than he has to pay? What are term deposit rates in the USA? Yeah 2.5% on a loan is cheap, I would borrow the cash too with that sort of interest.
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Old 30-03-2014, 18:49   #55
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Re: How much is enough?

Just this afternoon while lying on the trampoline of our 43' catamaran (10 years ago cost new was $450 with all the add-ons) my wife and I had a discussion about costs of cruising . The numbers we threw out were complete SWAGS but here are a few of them (all costs per month in USD):
Loan payment - $1220
Insurance - $330
Fuel/oil - $100 (We hardly ever motor to get from place to place)
Marinas - $100 (Usually at anchor)
Repairs - $1000

We did not mention food costs since we were trying to compare cost of living aboard vs. cost of living ashore.

Your budget sounds more than adequate for a cruising couple (which I'm confident you can become) on a moderate sized boat.

Good luck!
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Old 31-03-2014, 00:32   #56
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Re: How much is enough?

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If the Missus wants space.. go for a big Cat..
The Lagoon 440 is pretty spacious.. not crazy about the bridge deck helm and high boom but sails well enough.. 200 miles/ day.. heaves to pretty nicely in a blow..
But there's plenty of others to choose from out there.. and for long term from her view point I reckon that'd be the wiser choice.. I have found women in the main start to get claustrophobic over the long term in mono hulls... they still resent being grabbed by the hair and dragged into caves...
Can't imagine why..
Well said boatman.

Our experience thoroughly confirms all that...from both the Captain and the Admiral's perspectives!!
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Old 31-03-2014, 15:48   #57
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Re: How much is enough?

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
I dont understand this bit...

Boat cost -
$800,000.00 (Initial downpayment $160,000.00, Balance owing $640,000)
Monthly Payment -
$6,000.00 (120,000.00 per year - Boat paid for in 10 years give or take)

So you are planning on paying around 1.35 M for an 800k boat? What is the benifit to you from not buying it outright initially?
My bad.... 72K per year, not 120K.

I don't know where that came from either.

Thanks.
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Old 31-03-2014, 15:54   #58
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Re: How much is enough?

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OK but, why borrow and not buy it outright? Maybe he can make more interest than he has to pay? What are term deposit rates in the USA? Yeah 2.5% on a loan is cheap, I would borrow the cash too with that sort of interest.
Currently this is exactly correct. Without getting into details, generally my borrowing rate is lower than my investment rate. In the event that this turns around the other way I always have the ability to pay things off in one lump sum.

Even so, I have actually struggled with this particular part of the decission. I generally don't like debt.
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Old 31-03-2014, 16:54   #59
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Re: How much is enough?

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Currently this is exactly correct. Without getting into details, generally my borrowing rate is lower than my investment rate. In the event that this turns around the other way I always have the ability to pay things off in one lump sum.

Even so, I have actually struggled with this particular part of the decission. I generally don't like debt.
I don't like debt and then the idea of debt on a toy (yes our boats are our toys) I like even less. Even if the financial information said it made sense, I just couldn't personally do it. Even as a former accountant, my emotions overrule the logic in this matter. Yes, it's a little extra income I'm passing up, but I just am more at ease in so doing. Logic is if you can borrow at 2.5% and use that money to earn 5% or more, you do it. But I've just become conditioned in such a way I can't bring myself to do that.
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Old 31-03-2014, 17:09   #60
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Re: How much is enough?

Ditto.
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