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Old 21-03-2018, 18:17   #1
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Hire the buyers broker or not?

Good evening !
We are on the market searching for used sailboat in Florida with budget around 200k$
We are not experienced in buying preowned boats. Before we had new and smaller boats.
At the moment weíve looked through several boats and have chosen a couple for future negotiations.
We found these boats by our own and looked them directly with sales broker.
On the other hand we know the broker who would like to help us as buyers broker.
The question is : what is the best way to get the better negotiating price? To speak with sales broker directly and make offer and ask about help in registration and everything? or hire buyers broker for negotiation and additional help in this deal?
If I understand correctly itís possible to make it directly and get better price because the sales bbroker in this case doesnít need to share his commission. Or am I wrong?
What else the buyers broker can be useful with? Pros and Cons to hire the buyers broker? Or to make deal with the sales broker directly?
Thank you in advance for your advices !
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Old 21-03-2018, 18:26   #2
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

I think it depends on what sort of person you are? I have seen it both ways and if you are a bit of a pushover a buyers broker is a good idea. But if you are a good negotiator and can stand your ground then dealing with the sales broker is probably easier.
Cheers
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Old 21-03-2018, 19:27   #3
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

In my limited experience, the benefits to a buyer's broker are:

You deal with the same person for every boat you look at. Relationships are a good thing.

They will cheerfully offer information that might be like pulling teeth to get from the seller's broker. For some examples: How long has the boat been on the market? What is the ask price history? What's the sales history of similar boats? The listing broker doesn't like to share any of these answers.

Listing brokers are more forthcoming with other brokers in general, and especially about the seller's level of motivation. So your buyer's broker has an easier time getting info (as noted already).

But keep in mind, like the seller's broker, their #1 motivation is making a sale. It's how they get paid. So even a good buyer's broker might push you harder than you'd like to close a deal.

Good luck!
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Old 21-03-2018, 19:43   #4
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

The sellers broker wants the seller to lower the price for an easy sell.
The buyers broker wants the buyer to offer more to make an easy sell.
If one broker is representing both parties then they get a bigger commission and perhaps such willing to work harder.
At least this is how it seems to me.
Maybe way over simplified and many more pros and cons to it.
Just a thought.
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Old 22-03-2018, 03:54   #5
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

You might find a good broker but IMHO they always go for their own interest (obviously) which isnít necessary good for you. They want you to buy a boat and try to influence you to make the purchase (even if you arenít 100% happy with the boat). Plus, the higher price you pay, the more commission they get. Not really motivated to push the price down for you.

But itís up to you that you prefer to save some time and let the broker work for you or save some money and do the job yourself.

Best of luck with your search!
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Old 22-03-2018, 04:18   #6
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

I would assume most boats in Florida right now are listed with a broker. Going without is going to be hard and will drastically limit the amount of boats you'll see. You can always talk to a few brokers and still go off on your own and look for those boats that are FSBOs. Most brokers and sellers in South Florida, especially for Cats, are more interested in turn over than squeaking out a few extra points. Just a bit of warning though. If you walk into the fanciest Ferrari dealership in Ft. Lauderdale with 200K they will roll out the red carpet, champagne, and a sexy sales lady (or man). 200K in the Cat markets here will barely get a rise out of most brokers.
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Old 22-03-2018, 07:12   #7
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSz View Post
You might find a good broker but IMHO they always go for their own interest (obviously) which isnít necessary good for you. They want you to buy a boat and try to influence you to make the purchase (even if you arenít 100% happy with the boat). Plus, the higher price you pay, the more commission they get. Not really motivated to push the price down for you.

But itís up to you that you prefer to save some time and let the broker work for you or save some money and do the job yourself.

Best of luck with your search!
Thank you!
I have the same feeling, some time my bayers broker send me significantly overpriced offers and doesnít bother himself to make some market research !
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Old 22-03-2018, 07:15   #8
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

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Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
If you walk into the fanciest Ferrari dealership in Ft. Lauderdale with 200K they will roll out the red carpet, champagne, and a sexy sales lady (or man). 200K in the Cat markets here will barely get a rise out of most brokers.
You right, 200k itís starting price for 10 yeahs old 38 cat!
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Old 22-03-2018, 07:27   #9
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

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Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
I think it depends on what sort of person you are? I have seen it both ways and if you are a bit of a pushover a buyers broker is a good idea. But if you are a good negotiator and can stand your ground then dealing with the sales broker is probably easier.
Cheers
Thank you!
You are right and I feel more motivated in negotiations about price then my broker
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Old 22-03-2018, 07:49   #10
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

What if you find a boat you want and it's for sale by owner and the owner isn't willing to give up some of his boat profit to pay your broker, will you be obligated to pay him out of your pocket or could it possibly squash the deal? And you then won't be able to buy the boat? I think you should handle this yourself, I find the fewer hands in the fire, the better off you are. Just stick to your guns when negotiating things and be patient. It's a buyers market, remember your the one with the money and that gives you the upper hand.
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Old 22-03-2018, 08:01   #11
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

There are good principled buyerís brokers and bad ones. If you want a good one, ask around and do your research, donít hire the first one that offers.

What can a good buyerís broker do for you?

- have familiarity with the boat youíre looking at and know how it compares with other similar boats on the market and which have recently sold
- get the price history of similar boats that have sold over the past year, vital information for making a reasonable, defensible offer
- know how to negotiate effectively on your behalf
- handle all the paper work
- be an extra pair of experienced eyes during the survey

All this at no cost to you.

A case in point is my own experience with my current boat. My broker reviewed a listing of valiants that had sold over the previous year and were currently on the market, some of which he was personally familiar with. We picked a candidate based on location, condition, and equipment, and he announced that it was over priced. He pointed out that there was one on the west coast in better condition that was $20k cheaper and that it would cost less than that to transport it east. We made a bid based on this info and the market data and it was accepted.

The survey turned up a variety of items, and my broker negotiated the price down again based off n repair replace costs. He was at the survey and flagged a few items that the surveyor missed.

He handled escrow titling and documentation.

Of course a broker is motivated by self interest. Time is money, and they donít want to help you look at 50 boats when you have a $100k budget. If you use them wisely and respect their time, and use them as counsel instead of gospel, you benefit.
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Old 22-03-2018, 08:23   #12
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

Forget the buyer's broker. I never have understood that logic. Why does one need a buyers broker? Why would the listing broker work hard to make that deal work, splitting his commission?
If you make an offer, come up with a logic why you are offering what you are...ie: YOU "sell the deal" to the listing broker. If you have a buyers broker and you sell your offer to him, then he has to sell the offer to the listing broker, then that broker has to sell the offer to the owner... a lot can get done poorly or lost! TOO MANY LAYERS!
Something you can do: when you are going thru a boat which you are close to offering on, look for the registration or papers... try to get the owners name and address. It may be laying right in the chart table or visible on the aft bulkhead in a plastic cover. You can always contact him and talk about the boat, establish a relationship with him, as well as let him know you are making him an offer. It's amazing how much owners will disclose person to person, that brokers wont.
This may help to keep the broker from "getting in the way" also. The seller doesn't give a darn if the broker has to split the commission or not! He wants it SOLD.
I once had a boat listed with a broker. I had an offer, counteroffer, which the broker couldn't quite finalize. He told me the sale was off.
I called and met with the potential buyer. I told him everything about the boat, how it was built, the not so obvious qualities, etc and closed the deal myself. I'm an introvert and terrible salesman, but I knew the boat from stem to stern.
Try not to get obligated to two brokers. That in itself can get in the way.... :>)
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Old 22-03-2018, 09:14   #13
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart555 View Post
Good evening !
We are on the market searching for used sailboat in Florida with budget around 200k$
We are not experienced in buying preowned boats. Before we had new and smaller boats.
At the moment weíve looked through several boats and have chosen a couple for future negotiations.
We found these boats by our own and looked them directly with sales broker.
On the other hand we know the broker who would like to help us as buyers broker.
The question is : what is the best way to get the better negotiating price? To speak with sales broker directly and make offer and ask about help in registration and everything? or hire buyers broker for negotiation and additional help in this deal?
If I understand correctly itís possible to make it directly and get better price because the sales bbroker in this case doesnít need to share his commission. Or am I wrong?
What else the buyers broker can be useful with? Pros and Cons to hire the buyers broker? Or to make deal with the sales broker directly?
Thank you in advance for your advices !
I always find a broker I know that has a good reputation and let him find the boats i'm interested in. as is the case in a home purchase, the seller pays all commissions which are split by the buyer's and seller's broker. hell, on my last purchase in engaged two brokers in different parts of the country so I could find what I wanted. there's simply no downside to calling up a broker and telling him what you want. there is no contract, unlike the seller, and you can always buy from a private party if you find something you like.
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Old 22-03-2018, 09:54   #14
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

Full disclosure I was a S Florida yacht broker in the 80s :-)

My two cents, deal directly with the listing broker.

No split makes a big difference not only in price but also confusion.

I would not use a buyers broker BUT I would put serious effort in finding a great surveyor who I got along well with. A few calls to other brokers in the area will turn up a few.

If and when you end up 10k apart and there is a 20K commission on the line broker much more likely to eat a good chunk of that to make the deal.

That and read that book by that guy who bills himself as a great negotiator, “the art of the something”, name escapes me :-)
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Old 22-03-2018, 11:17   #15
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Re: Hire the buyers broker or not?

I went thru this process 2 years ago. In the 200k price range all of the boats will have a listing broker. A buyers broker represents you, not the seller. You can't just hire a surveyor as you will be looking a boats over great distances. in my case from N Carolina to Kemah , Tx. You will find boats you are interested in thru Yacht World. Your broker will send you leads. You give your broker a list of boats, 24 hrs later they give their opinion on your list. You or broker contact listing broker and get more info on a pruned list. Your person gives their 2 cents opinion. Once your broker knows what you would accept he gets the lowdown on you prospect. Brokers are much less likely to blow smoke talking to another broker. If everything looks good is road trip time to put your own eyes on the boat. We went from New Orleans to Ft lauderdale, drove a rental car from Ft Pierce to Marathon to Tampa with a list of ten boats, 4 were sold by the time we got there, the other 6 had various issues we weren't interested in. On our last night before departing we made a offer sight unseen on a boat in Kemah, Tx. It turned out to be the one. Our broker did what he was paid for buy good advice, inside knowledge(one boat high on our list had negative survey), others had many owners, etc. The 2 brokers split the commission. Your buyers broker has some liability as to statements made to you and is not the same as a used car salesman.
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