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Old 31-07-2015, 13:40   #1
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Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Greetings all,

I have posted a couple of times on this site and I appreciate all the good information you fellas (and gals) provide. I have been waiting for a good Gemini catamaran sailboat to appear for a couple of years, preferrably in the 105 series, but have yet to find one that fits my budget.

I was doing my occasional online shopping/dreaming when I came across a '85 Warwick Sloop sailboat 46' with a 6' draft online for $14,500. She (the boat) has a 2010 Yanmar diesel 4jh5e with 32 hours and a max prop. The boat is in another state and I would need to bring her home to florida.

The boat is described as a project, but seems that the fiberglass and hull is in good shape (She floats!). She would need alot of work on the teak weatherdeck refinishing and such, but other than that appears good may need electrical issues not sure, but I wanted to see what you seasoned sailors thought of the boat. I like the idea of getting this boat due to price range as well as capability help me decide pls and thank you!

SeaDreamin
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Old 31-07-2015, 13:53   #2
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Hi, there Sea Dreaming,

If this is a Warwick built in NZ, she would be a temptation. I've seen a few, good reputation, good sea boats, handsome.

However, as you may have noticed, it is very unlike a catamaran. So, it's not your first choice.

Secondly, teak deck leaks are a curse to the owner. Costs to remove and replace with good non-skid aren't nearly as much as replacing the teak deck. Probably run you between 30 and 40k to replace the whole thing in a yard, but call around. You'd get an idea on the labor costs, see how much you might save by doing it yourself.

Friends with a 38 footer did theirs in Langkawi, ruined her back, took a whole season, with two of them working full time on the boat.

However, if you've been aboard, the boat passes survey, you're keen to start your plan in motion, and she makes your heart go pitty-pat, why would you not do it?

I guess my opinion is that it could turn out to be a real sack of worms, or a great delight, and you have to get more data to decide.

Good luck with it.

Ann
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:06   #3
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Sea Dreamin,

The words "project boat" really worry me. Simply put, that's probably more project than most folks would want to take on. Of course, you'd want to see it first, but that's not a price for that boat in decent condition. Costs to have it professionally restored would possibly exceed your budget for the Gemini, if you can find one.

You mentioned teak weatherdeck, I am guessing you just mean the deck, but if it has been leaking for years, you may have a lot of rot to cope with.

If your inclination and skill sets are towards restoring a boat, then it might turn out okay, but this one is not a simple deck job, I bet.

If you go see & smell the boat, if it passes survey (to be moved to you in FL), if it makes your heart go pitty pat, and you find out what the estimated costs for professional restoration are, then maybe. You need hard data, and we, on the outside of you, do not know your skill sets nor capabilities.

Ann
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Old 31-07-2015, 14:37   #4
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

A 46' boat for 14600 is bloody cheap, maybe too cheap. Being a first boat I would definitely get it surveyed by a reputable surveyor. Read the survey carefully, a dishonest surveyor may chase you from a good boat so he can get his greedy little hands on it.

Expanding on the teak deck situation, not all teak decks are bad. I have 36 year old teak decks and my boat is so dry I have to run a humidifier in fall/winter. I have problems with my bilge because the engine leaks more oil than the boat makes water lol (I think that's funny, at least it starts every time and pushes the boat around).

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Old 31-07-2015, 15:47   #5
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Given so many boats sold as ready to cruise turn out to become project boats I'd suggest that something sold as a project boat is going to be a lot of work. And 46 feet of project boat would scare me. Remember the amount of boat to work on basically follows the cube of the length. Double the length means 8 times the work.

Each to their own but I would ask myself "do I want to go sailing or do I want to work on a boat for the next few years?" Let the answer to that question guide your decision.

I'd rather go sailing, but I am a bit odd.

Matt


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Old 31-07-2015, 21:14   #6
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Thank you all for your advice I appreciate your help with this dilemma. I found the advice very helpful and thought provoking. I decided to contact the seller and learn more about the history of the boat as well as any known issues, but unfortunately the boat is now under contract... oh well onto the next boat.

If anyone was interested in the boat heres the link although this ship has sailed
Used 1985 Warwick Cardinal Sloop, Folly Beach, Sc - 29401 - BoatTrader.com


Thanks again

SeaDreamin
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:16   #7
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

If you live in Florida, I would stick with the Gemini. A monohull with a 6' draft eliminates a large inventory of places you can go in Florida and the Bahamas. For example, you can forget most of the IntraCoastal Waterway, which would be a deal breaker for me.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:50   #8
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by timbenner View Post
If you live in Florida, I would stick with the Gemini. A monohull with a 6' draft eliminates a large inventory of places you can go in Florida and the Bahamas. For example, you can forget most of the IntraCoastal Waterway, which would be a deal breaker for me.
I have to agree.
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:00   #9
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

They are giving away boats in Fl.. Gemini to six feet of draft? Why would you go elsewhere and you don't know what you want? There ain't no free lunches. Project boat is something let to go to hell. Quadruple the initial cost and you might be in the right ball park to get it serviceable. JMHO
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Old 01-08-2015, 14:29   #10
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

re: project boat

I bought a 1976 41' Gulfstar back in 2003 - lived aboard for ~3 years while refitting her. Learned a lot. A ot to be said for rebuilding/replacing stuff on *your* boat - you know what work was done, who did it, how capable (or not) they were, how it works, what is liely to fail/cause problems.

re: 6' draft and the ICW - I motored that same boat (with 6' draft) from Charleston, SC to melbourne, FL in 2004 - no issues with draft except Hell's Gate (Warsaw/Ossabaw Sound junction in Georgia). Yes, it was 10+ years ago, but..... And yes, I've owned a tri since then and next boat will likely be a cat - speed, safety, space, and shallow draft.....
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Old 01-08-2015, 14:45   #11
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

From a Gemini cat to a fancy big sloop/ Hmmm.... hmm... is it a dessert topping or a floor wax? What kind of boat do you want? As for the "advice" that a dishonest surveyor will try to cheat you--well, there are hucksters everywhere but that's a pretty ridiculous assertion. That's the last thing to worry about in a survey. Maybe one out of five hundred surveyors would do such a thing. The big concern in a survey is that they miss defects! If a surveyor is trying to do such things as suggested above, he or she won't be around long--and he's probably already on to this boat. What's really weird here with this boat is why would someone invest in a new Yanmar (20-25k?) and a Max Prop ($5k?) and then sell a boat for only $14k???? But even weirder--do you want a Gemini catamaran or a bigger, fancier, deeper draft boat? May I look into the crystal ball and suggest what I am seeing? A person with a dream of a boat but not really sure what you want. So you are looking at any boat that you think fits your budget whether it's in Florida or North Carolina. Big mistake. Find a smaller boat near you and buy that. Enjoy it for a year or two while learning how to fix things and what it all costs. Understand the market when you buy it and reinforce what you learned when you sell it. Then you'll know what it really costs and what you can afford--and whether you want a lightweight cat or a heavy, deep draft boat.
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Old 01-08-2015, 14:51   #12
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by timbenner View Post
If you live in Florida, I would stick with the Gemini. A monohull with a 6' draft eliminates a large inventory of places you can go in Florida and the Bahamas. For example, you can forget most of the IntraCoastal Waterway, which would be a deal breaker for me.
Good advise.
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Old 01-08-2015, 15:01   #13
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nekkidsailin View Post
re: project boat

I bought a 1976 41' Gulfstar back in 2003 - lived aboard for ~3 years while refitting her. Learned a lot. A ot to be said for rebuilding/replacing stuff on *your* boat - you know what work was done, who did it, how capable (or not) they were, how it works, what is liely to fail/cause problems.

re: 6' draft and the ICW - I motored that same boat (with 6' draft) from Charleston, SC to melbourne, FL in 2004 - no issues with draft except Hell's Gate (Warsaw/Ossabaw Sound junction in Georgia). Yes, it was 10+ years ago, but..... And yes, I've owned a tri since then and next boat will likely be a cat - speed, safety, space, and shallow draft.....
What type of tri? I've had two. I would love a cat but pitch poling scares me.
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Old 01-08-2015, 15:07   #14
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis View Post
From a Gemini cat to a fancy big sloop/ Hmmm.... hmm... is it a dessert topping or a floor wax? What kind of boat do you want? As for the "advice" that a dishonest surveyor will try to cheat you--well, there are hucksters everywhere but that's a pretty ridiculous assertion. That's the last thing to worry about in a survey. Maybe one out of five hundred surveyors would do such a thing. The big concern in a survey is that they miss defects! If a surveyor is trying to do such things as suggested above, he or she won't be around long--and he's probably already on to this boat. What's really weird here with this boat is why would someone invest in a new Yanmar (20-25k?) and a Max Prop ($5k?) and then sell a boat for only $14k???? But even weirder--do you want a Gemini catamaran or a bigger, fancier, deeper draft boat? May I look into the crystal ball and suggest what I am seeing? A person with a dream of a boat but not really sure what you want. So you are looking at any boat that you think fits your budget whether it's in Florida or North Carolina. Big mistake. Find a smaller boat near you and buy that. Enjoy it for a year or two while learning how to fix things and what it all costs. Understand the market when you buy it and reinforce what you learned when you sell it. Then you'll know what it really costs and what you can afford--and whether you want a lightweight cat or a heavy, deep draft boat.
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Old 01-08-2015, 16:41   #15
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Re: Help Should I Pull the TRIGGER?!

Nice looking vessel, shame you missed it, seen a lot worse.
These things are designed to sail in the ocean.
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