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Old 14-03-2008, 15:20   #61
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I hate reading this stuff. Why? It confuses me. I have no clue what to do with my meager savings.

While I understand everything in this thread, it is very hard to distill it down into useful information in much the same way reading the daily changes in the WSJ are hard to distill into any useful information.

Normally, you can just sit back and keep your cash while waiting for economic turmoil to change to positive momentum. This time... (my first time with capital), it seems there is NOWHERE to put my money!! (my money is a cruising kitty, so this post pertains to sailing)

This is very frustrating because:

1) Seems like gold had had a good run and you'd be buying close to the top

2) The USD is supposedly going to tank some more

3) Fixed income investments are paying squat compared to inflation

4) Securities are still falling and seem like they will a while still

5) If you want to diversify your cash across the globe, you need more than my meager savings to do it. I haven't seen any international accounts you can open with less than $100K. Even then, they don't really want to hear from you.

It's great to have finally joined the "investor class", but as some hip hop artist once said: "Mo money, mo problems."

While I try and play the slot machine of investing, I suppose I'll follow my original plan that was also posted above: Keep my guns ready, keep my survival skills up and hope for the best. Good places to be if things hit the fan (and I'm doubting they will be incredibly bad) are places where there are natural resources and no other people to compete with. That's all I'm saying... I'm going where there are no other people and I can eat, drink and live with my guns to keep any would be theifs away.
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Old 14-03-2008, 15:57   #62
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... I remember my grandmother telling me a long time ago that during the Great Depression there was a lot of people (like them) that didn't even know there was a depression going on. (they lived on a farm in Kentucky). I bet there are some really excellent islands out there that would be great places to be. I guess we'll just have to go find them for ourselves.
Interesting point!

I think what this says is that if you're living off the land and being self-sufficient, it doesn't matter too much what happens in the "outside world". You can get by with what you have at hand.

When we were on the island of Dominica, in the eastern Caribbean, our guide said, "Nobody goes hungry on Dominica. All you have to do is walk into the forest and pick fruits and vegetables to eat." Dominica is the lushest island in the Lesser Antilles. Maybe a good place to go if you want to minimize cash outlay. And they have a high percentage of citizens over 100 years in age. Clean living!!!
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Old 14-03-2008, 16:56   #63
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I don't think we are heading back to the stone age; nor do I think that we need to keep our 'survival skills' honed. I do think that there are places where the USD will go alot further than at home (even if not as far as a couple of years ago). Sean, your boat is the perfect investment in the sense that if the economy truly tanks and it becomes too expensive to live in the USA, you can always sail away in your home and live much cheaper (and probably more confortably) elsewhere.

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Old 14-03-2008, 21:15   #64
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So in response to an earlier posting by Alan suggesting that this has become a political discussion,
No I have warned not to let this become Political. So far everyone has done well. Although my question is, What the heck does all this have to do with boating. Lets keep it on track.
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Old 14-03-2008, 23:59   #65
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I don't think we are heading back to the stone age; nor do I think that we need to keep our 'survival skills' honed. I do think that there are places where the USD will go alot further than at home (even if not as far as a couple of years ago). Sean, your boat is the perfect investment in the sense that if the economy truly tanks and it becomes too expensive to live in the USA, you can always sail away in your home and live much cheaper (and probably more confortably) elsewhere.

Brad
Hey what's wrong with the stone age? I had some of my best times then. All the men had to do was hunt, fish and chase women, why have we been trying to improve on that? LOL
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Old 15-03-2008, 00:46   #66
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Yes, the economy of the UK was seriously impacted by the First World War, as were the German, French and American economies, but the Pound Sterling retained its status as the world's most widely accepted currency. And, as you have noted, the gold standard was still in effect. The gold standard was what kept all of the would-be currency manipulators honest.
What? you mean these were actually worth something?
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Old 16-03-2008, 17:20   #67
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Happy St Patrick's Day (Mar 17th)

Does anyone actually think, that the country that controls 60% of the worlds wealth(USA), can go through an economic downfall without the other countries in the world suffering some dificulties? I recall when the stock market fell overnight, and every other countries major stock market fell immediately, too.
Bigger minds than ours are working on this subject.

I am just trying to weather the weather and go sailing. and by the way, this subject sucks.

end of story for me.

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Old 16-03-2008, 20:03   #68
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Oh Hell...Lets go sailing
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Old 17-03-2008, 03:31   #69
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There is nowhere one can sail except the islands--and how many of you could survive on breadfruit, cocnuts and fish with a few fei thrown on the coals? It all sounds good. One of my pals was a Tokelauan of reputable family who used to tell me they got a heap of people arrive in paradise--seldom did they last more than two years before they went back to the system they had hoped to escape from.

It is possible to do it--Tom Neill did it on Suvarrow for a few years on and off--but he was very lucky. Still--with solar power and the ability to purify seawater, a lot of islands previously uninhabitable could now sustain folk for a year or two. Water is the main problem--and pressing coconuts for diesel fuel would be a productive way to while away the hours between tides and fishing--
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Old 17-03-2008, 03:33   #70
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"Oh Hell...Lets go sailing"

...and close the thread.
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Old 17-03-2008, 03:38   #71
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Bigger minds than ours--
What a fond imagining!
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Old 17-03-2008, 06:35   #72
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"Oh Hell...Lets go sailing"

...and close the thread.
Well, you don't have to open up and *read* the thread if you don't want to. Regardless of if you like to discuss these topics (that are a side reason some of us have boats), the thread doesn't need closing.
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Old 17-03-2008, 10:11   #73
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I agree with Sean, and want to personally thank everyone for their input on this thread. It has lead me to several interesting and thoughtful websites and discussions with friends.

While this thread may not have evolved directly into sailing per se, it's still got revelance with it regarding countries which for these very reasons we're discussing may become hostile or more friendly to our presence. (How's THAT for a long sentence?)

Closing the thread is like sticking your head in the sand because you don't like what's going on around you, but it doesn't change the truth.

Steve B.
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Old 17-03-2008, 11:00   #74
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The Spanish speaking islands and countries around the south and west of the Caribbean, would probably provide a better bang for your buck. You can sail for a few years and by then, this (long overdue) correction will ( I humbly suggest) have already found its bottom... as indeed every other "black" day of the week experienced since I entered this investment profession some 36 years ago....did and moved forward.

I do not in any way seek to pooh hah the genuine fears and concerns that many who read and post within the forum have regarding their cruising savings and those seeking to accumulate same to cruise in the future. There is blood on the floor and there will be more to come.... But comparisons between now and crisis situations in times past don't and cannot compare ...Germany's situation between the wars... was more the effect of the treaty of Versaille, whereby Russia and to a lesser extent France sought war reparations of such magnitude that made it impossible for Germany to prosper. ( This experience and lessons learned did more to influence the creation of the Marshal Plan etc after the second world war).

The boom in world economies since the fifties, was predicated on demographics and future booms will be equally influenced. Over the Recent past billions of people have been empowered and have the same desires of a better life, as those returning from the last war. Yes there is corruption, foolishness, speculation and greed that create bubbles, they will pass and others will occur and once again the world will look aghast at how little we learned. So is our nature.

But markets have always shown that they have a ruthless yet pretty effective way to determine values. From that point they eventually recover. These shall too... so let them do what they do. Those brave enough to enter no doubt will look back in four or five years and be glad that they did.

Therefore pull out your "sailing passages of the world" and start planning for 2012.

Regards


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Old 17-03-2008, 11:06   #75
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Reasons to worry about the IMPENDING ECONOMIC COLLAPSE and one possible WAY OUT.

A. The U.S. economy collapses and you and your boat are still in the U.S. Your boat is taken over by squatters, looted, or stolen by someone with a bigger gun than you.
B. You manage to get out of the U.S. but the collapse of the U.S. economy has triggered a global collapse. The country you flee to may have a less developed economy and has been hit even harder. You look pretty well off with your fancy shiny boat to the desperate locals. Your boat is taken over by squatters, looted, or stolen by someone with a bigger gun than you.
C. You manage to get out of the U.S. with your money. You arrive someplace that has managed to stave off the collapse but you find out that not many people want your now worthless dollars. It takes a suitcase full to buy a few gallons of diesel fuel or food for a few days. Your safe haven is eventually overrun with even more refugees. Your boat is taken over by squatters, looted, or stolen by someone with a bigger gun than you.
D. You arrive at some undiscovered tropical paradise and live off the land like..........yeah, right.
E. You have the biggest gun around.....you might just be alright.

Somewhat tongue in cheek but what is the point in discussing extremely unlikely,worst case, read it on the internet scenarios, other than for entertainment purposes.
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