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Old 28-12-2009, 14:48   #271
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At this point, blessedly, all this is hypothetical. If the s@#t hits the fan, no place will be absolutely safe, and therefore, the point to me is where will be relatively safe.

We live in Connecticut, we like Maine, and that sounds relatively safe to me.
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Old 28-12-2009, 16:18   #272
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Adversity may tend to draw already friendly people together, but also fosters a parochial isolationism and mistrust of strangers.
Accordingly, home (or some place youíre already known, & liked) may be a better place to ride out the storm, than any other idealized locale.

The sailing is good; but similar to my locale, too short.
So very true, as it seems in every scenario this becomes the case and strangers, or those not known very well, becoming automatically left out of "the group". Home would be one of the safest (from people) places to be. Hope you don't live in a big city....
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Old 28-12-2009, 19:43   #273
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This is a fun thread!

Lots of things I have never thought about and won't have too after hearing a lecture from 3 top econimst on why it's impossible for our (US)economy to colapse, just corrections that are healthy. It did allow me to buy stocks at prices 10 years prior.

But.... if it did happen I would want to be invested in technology for the boat, a satelite reciever for the tv and a ham radio would be a must for me along with some way to connect to the internet to stay on top of current world events and avoid chaos, atleast for long term survival technology could give you the edge.

My .02
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Old 29-12-2009, 07:58   #274
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This is a fun thread!

after hearing a lecture from 3 top econimst on why it's impossible for our (US)economy to colapse, just corrections that are healthy
" lies, damned lies and statistics..."

Actually, they are mostly correct. The corrections in the markets we've seen were WAY overdue. Unfortunately, there is also momentum which can carry us further than a 50% correction and turn the markets "south". the higher you go, the further you fall. Some rebound will be seen from the correction (as is now), but if confidence ("strength of the industry") doesn't match, the market will falter to more lows after the rebound. All this takes time and with the govt overspending and unemployment rates what they are, I'm "shorting".
(Actually, I only do commodities. Stocks are too goofy right now.)
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Old 29-12-2009, 08:00   #275
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Ignorance and insular intolerance are rampant, most EVERYWHERE, and Maine (in particular) is not known for welcoming strangers.

Adversity may tend to draw already friendly people together, but also fosters a parochial isolationism and mistrust of strangers.
Exactly what I was thinking as I read it....

I think the best place to be would be on your boat, out in the open ocean. Sailing for some far away, DESERT ISLAND.... where no one is. Spend a year going there, and coming back, then see what is left. A outsider would not be welcome in a place like Maine, or most of the towns in the US. Wouldn't matter if your US as well. They might just drive you away instead of killing you outright... but still you would not be welcome.
You might if, you have skills they needed... but then what would be the point?
If you set yourself up with a good food supply, a way of obtaining more... and the ability to sail most any where in the world, why would you want to be in a place where they only accept you because of your "skills" or "gold".
If I had to spend money on stuff to hold me over in a unlikely event that something bad happens.. it would be on stuff most cruisers already have like spare parts, fuel, food, fishing gear, etc. A lot of bullets for trade, I bet would be worth more than gold, except at the onset. But after people realized they cannot eat gold... priorities would change.
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Old 29-12-2009, 08:23   #276
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Did anyone see the sociology experiment on Discovery called "The Colony"? Very interesting study on humans in crisis. I'd like to see the conclusions drawn from that.
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Old 29-12-2009, 14:21   #277
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Discovery's “The Colony” is not even "reality" TV, and certainly not a legitimate experiment - it’s S/F fantasy entertainment.

It can't reproduce the strain of surviving the end of the world. Its subjects haven't actually seen most of their loved ones die; they know they will return to a functioning society; we know (and a title card reminds us at the end) that experts are standing by to help them if they meet any actual danger. The Colonists squabble, cry and thump their chests as if they were in an actual life-and-death scenario. They're not, of course.
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Old 29-12-2009, 17:10   #278
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Exactly what I was thinking as I read it....

If I had to spend money on stuff to hold me over in a unlikely event that something bad happens.. it would be on stuff most cruisers already have like spare parts, fuel, food, fishing gear, etc. A lot of bullets for trade, I bet would be worth more than gold, except at the onset. But after people realized they cannot eat gold... priorities would change.
I agree with this, but I suspect some may have "lost the plot" a little.

The issue of supply - living and surviving on a yacht or some other floatsome - while carefully moving from place to place etc. THIS IS ABOUT SHORT-TERM SURVIVAL and probably the most painfully devastating phase of a real Global Disaster. Realistically we can't stock our home, or even a large boat for permanent survival and if hundreds of boats drift around with terrified occupants onboard perpetually munching on stored food and fresh fish - what good is that to the human destiny? Nothing good at all, just turning the last humans into hapless spectators!

(Plus I'm a little amused by the Yankie fasination with bullets for trade... If their is a total collapse of the economy not much will remain of any wild-life to hunt or "bush-tucker" to gather after a year or less.)

LONG-TERM SURVIVAL after the "Final Global Solution" for our carbon-stressed planet is what is important. So what to do after your "ship comes in" after a year of living off-shore? Population numbers reduced back to year-zero when JC walked the dusty roads of Judaland? 95% of people gone to heaven with very few left on Earth to remember them?

This is when gold and anything tradeable will be important. Anything that some people will need or desire. I also suspect that in the aftermath of a "Global Cleansing" almost anyone will be welcome everywhere because it will be plenty of free space made available, and most people like to have people living in neighboring houses rather then see them fall apart empty.

What pobably will be important in the LONG RUN is what gives people an edge today and always have in the past - knowledge and skill. If you personally possess skills that contribute to society, then you will do well in the future once the storm has subsided.

PS: This sound a little like a blue-print for NDC's today too... (Non-developing countries)
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Old 29-12-2009, 17:43   #279
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Short term I think boat offshore (with occassional visits / raids ashore) to avoid the initial population downsizing messiness.

Then I think somewhere temperate in Climate, and near the sea. With other people in a place that can be defended. Plenty of Castles near the sea in Europe

To help bond your new group (Tribe ) together will probably find a common religion useful, preferably something different to mark you out from "others" so I think a good time to start me own religion

Will need to decide on what skills to prioritise to retain within the Tribe that will be needed once the existing resources are gone. I think metalworking, gun powder, gun smith (even if back to the musket), glass making, preserving food, radio telecommunications and medicine as high priority things not to lose. I would also try and preserve (and add to) a reference library as a priority as even if "we" can no longer do stuff, the simple fact we know it can be done is half the battle for the future. Even if re-discovering Nuclear Fusion will be a while off.........

Long term of course we will need to decide who first to invade - to steal all their goods and to enslave their peoples
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Old 29-12-2009, 19:03   #280
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The proof it will never happen is in this thread, as long as there is demand and trade there will be an economy.

It would take all 6.9 Billion people in the world to not make a trade or have a demand for a collapse (subjective word) to happen.

Just corrections that allow boats to be bought at 50 cents on the dollar

Good times!
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Old 29-12-2009, 19:31   #281
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We don't know what we don't know.

I thing it is pretty obvious that there will be some pretty serious corrections. But how will they evolve? Some see a soft powerdown while others foresee a brick wall/off the cliff scenario.

On another site they asked the question: What are your top 5 priorities? (or something like that). For me they are:

1 - Water
2 - Food
3 - Flexibility
4 - Mobility
5 - Skills

A well found and stocked boat does a lot for all of them. It may not be an economic depression (per se) but civil unrest as the social checks stop, or lack of food due to wheat rust, or epidemic, or, or, or.....

If nothing else a boat it would give you a couple of weeks to sit off shore and listen to the radio and think about what to do.

When thinking about where to go heading South makes a lot of sense because you don't have to heat which saves a lot of energy. On the other hand, a lot of people will figure that out October 2XXX after the "event" happens. So, the smart money may be to go North if you have a good supply of firewood handy.

Hummmm......... Thinking "Little Cod"
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Old 29-12-2009, 20:45   #282
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TEOTWAWKI threads.....gotta love 'em! The only thing you can count on is that it will be totally different than what you had imagined. Our ability to adapt to unforseen circumstances is what will save us...or not, depending on how bad those unforseen circumstances are...worst case scenario "them's that dies are the lucky ones"

Have a Happy! Bob
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Old 29-12-2009, 23:02   #283
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Gold is still shining bright

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I actually trade gold contracts in the commodity markets. Gold is in decline right now so I would wait to buy. Watch the value of the dollar, as our economy recovers the dollar will rise and gold will decline. I don't expect it to go below $1000p/toz. before turning up.
Where is the long term perspective? Gold has been doing the rounds for 5000 years! Lets have a look what happened to the blokes and sheilas that invested $100.00 ten years ago in various investments:

How would $100.00 go over ten years to today in these investment:


Gold $380.00 (Wooooh haah ha ha..)
Commodities $357.00
Crude oil $268.00
Australian shares $202.00
Treasuries $191.00
American shares ....(red ink here)......$90.00

(All according to Bloomberg Comsec)
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Old 30-12-2009, 05:02   #284
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... What pobably will be important in the LONG RUN is what gives people an edge today and always have in the past - knowledge and skill. If you personally possess skills that contribute to society, then you will do well in the future once the storm has subsided ...
Has anyone yet proposed that we, CFers, form a (secret) mutual-help society, in preparation for the coming cataclysm (whatever form it may take)?
Weíll need a recognition signal, and secret handshake.
Any ideas?
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Old 30-12-2009, 05:28   #285
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Good idea Gord....I'll go for the secret handshake.
It'll be handy to know that these folks (having read this thread) will have extra stuff on their boat!
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