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Old 22-12-2009, 19:38   #226
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Agreed with all above but.... still looking for something of sufficient intrinsic value that can easily be divided out in small increments and is universally accepted. Something tangible to replace paper money.
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Old 22-12-2009, 19:43   #227
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. . . still looking for something of sufficient intrinsic value that can easily be divided out in small increments and is universally accepted. Something tangible to replace paper money.
It's called gold and silver, hpeer - the wonder is that anyone ever accepted paper and ink as a substitute for actual money, gold and silver, in the first place.

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Old 22-12-2009, 20:01   #228
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Agreed with all above but.... still looking for something of sufficient intrinsic value that can easily be divided out in small increments and is universally accepted. Something tangible to replace paper money.
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It's called gold and silver, hpeer - the wonder is that anyone ever accepted paper and ink as a substitute for actual money, gold and silver, in the first place.

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Still in the context of a true global meltdown...

The concept of precious metals or gems as a bartering commodity seems somewhat strange to me. Isn't paper paper money at is base simply a counter for labor or intellectual effort produced?

I guess the global meltdown economy will be one of barter and labor.

Gold & silver have many uses and require labor to extract (giving them further value) but watch National Geographic for a while and you will see what really has value to natives with whom you would like to barter for food.

Bows, arrows, rope, textiles, nylon netting, fishing line. Practical items that the villagers can use.

There are a lot of fish pens around here and we frequently trade cold beer for fish.

Of course this is all a mental exercise. Most of us, myself included really can't see the doomsday thing happening. One thing for sure is that if it does it would be completely different than that which we can imagine while sitting in our den with the heat/aircon runinng, under our electric lights, typing on our computers while the city sends us unlimited amounts of electricity.
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Old 22-12-2009, 23:00   #229
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Doomsday, what a great subject. Though I doubt we're facing anything more severe than a significant retrenchment of our standard of living. Think about rolling society back a few decades in terms of material goods.

Anyway, the absolute best doomsday investment is to develop practical skills such as carpentry, mechanics, baking etc. I doubt investment banking will be in high demand (nor dog grooming). And gold & silver wouldn't hurt either - they seem to have held value since prehistoric times. Then I expect you'd want rural land in a stable, conservative community (like the Amish). Humans have developed and refined social living for a reason - it increased the standard of living for the group, skill sharing, improved child rearing and provided security.

Or if you think there're gonna be bands of bloodthirsty mutants roving the land you can barricade yourself in your mountain retreat ... but if you don't become part of a wider community you'll find it pretty tough. Nobody is that self-sufficient except for very short periods of time.

Doomsday yachties will still need to be able to barter for spare parts and food which means you become a fisherman, ferryman or cargoman. Or you have gold (which someone will steal). And you'll still need a community base, wherever it may be (how else will FedEx get you that West Marine part you ordered?).

In the real world, however, I think we're simply entering an era of diminished expectations rather than armageddon. The future probably holds more 30 foot than 40 foot boats...
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Old 23-12-2009, 00:31   #230
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"It's called gold and silver, hpeer - the wonder is that anyone ever accepted paper and ink as a substitute for actual money, gold and silver, in the first place. "

Amen my brother... Funny, if most of us bought Gold and Silver 10 years ago, we would all be sittin' pretty...... I bought some and was happy with the results, but I didnt put enough eggs into the Gold and Silver basket.. Bummer.
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Old 23-12-2009, 00:33   #231
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At least if your sailing full time, and your boat isn't so technical, then you can just go from place to place and barter. Smuggling minor stuff is appealing as well.
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Old 23-12-2009, 00:34   #232
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"Minor" meaning no drugs or guns that is......
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Old 23-12-2009, 05:05   #233
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Agreed with all above but.... still looking for something of sufficient intrinsic value that can easily be divided out in small increments and is universally accepted. Something tangible to replace paper money.
Fuel...fuel...fuel.....
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Old 23-12-2009, 07:00   #234
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Agreed with all above but.... still looking for something of sufficient intrinsic value that can easily be divided out in small increments and is universally accepted. Something tangible to replace paper money.
Cigarettes.

Read King Rat and it'll all come clear...
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Old 23-12-2009, 07:10   #235
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Agreed with all above but.... still looking for something of sufficient intrinsic value that can easily be divided out in small increments and is universally accepted. Something tangible to replace paper money.
In a true "Global Meltdown", the only things of value are what keeps you alive. You can't eat gold or silver and currency will only be good for wiping you butt. Food, fuel, ammo; trade goods. Those are what will be valuable. Theres always someone who'll take gold or silver or diamonds, but they'll find out quickly that their value declines to nothing when your starving.
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Old 23-12-2009, 07:40   #236
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&quot;Funny, if most of us bought Gold and Silver 10 years ago, we would all be sittin' pretty.
Nothing magic about gold. You just picked the best time period to buy it. Had you bought Kruggerands in 1980, you'd still be waiting to break even (at about $2200 after inflation). In 1863, gold hit $160/oz ... don't know what that would be adjusted for inflation, but I reckon it's a bit above the current level, like maybe by a factor of 100. The real money was made by buying prime farmland for a couple of bucks an acre. Gold has no more intrinsic value than paper --- you can't eat either one. Extrinsically, pinning the economy to a &quot;cross of gold&quot; would be a disaster for people who work for a living, as the progressives knew 100 years ago. Expensive money (i.e, the gold standard) favors those who own and lend the money, and penalizes those who must borrow it.
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Old 23-12-2009, 08:03   #237
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I actually trade gold contracts in the commodity markets. Gold is in decline right now so I would wait to buy. Watch the value of the dollar, as our economy recovers the dollar will rise and gold will decline. I don't expect it to go below $1000p/toz. before turning up.
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Old 23-12-2009, 08:35   #238
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I think gold may come in handy when the bullets run out. You could throw it at the zombies...
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Old 23-12-2009, 08:56   #239
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Yeah, say what you want about gold. Had you sold your stocks and bought gold 4 years ago, you wouldn't be so pessimistic about it. And I must agree that ammo and food would be more treasured than gold if the world came to an end. But the subject was, if the US economy collapsed. Now that it pretty much has...... I'll stick to gold and silver. Yes Fishman, now isn't the time to buy Gold.... I would buy silver at the moment, but I personally can't buy anything. Saving for another sailboat at the moment.
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Old 23-12-2009, 11:51   #240
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Commodity trading is the means to MY end. I discovered a knack for it a few years ago and did well at it. Gave it up for a while due to conflicts with The Company. I'm still a 'Phone Co. employee, but it won't buy the boat I want. So, off we go again...
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