Good Destinations in Event of Global Economic Depression?

[captsam54]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Several interesting and enlightening articles by an American expat' (Elizabeth Roebling) in The Dominican Republic:

➥ Life In A Dominican Beach Town: An American In The Dominican Republic ~ by Elizabeth Roebling

➥ Preparing For Expatriotism: More From An American In The Dominican Republic ~ by Elizabeth Roebling

➥ Life In The Dominican Republic: Six Months Down ~ by Elizabeth Roebling

Excellent articles.. Well worth reading in relation to DR..

Here is another related to cruising boats,,

http://www.dominicanrepubliccruisingguide.com/

[Miss_Bikini]

I'm going to Bikini_Island, all welcome - follow the map:-

[GordMay]

BIKINI ATOL: Two dozen tiny islands looping around a 240-square-mile lagoon, 2,100 miles southwest of Hawaii, the atoll was remote from sea and air routes. Its wind was predictable and its population sparse.

As Bob Hope said; "As soon as the war ended, we located the one spot on earth that hadn't been touched by the war and blew it to hell."

At this time, the indigenous people of Bikini remain scattered throughout the Marshall Islands, as they wait for the cleanup of Bikini Atol.

Left: Bikinian children leaving Bikini, March 7, 1946
Right: Bikinian children on Kili Island, 2007.


2003 STATEMENT OF THE PEOPLES OF BIKINI, ENEWETAK, RONGELAP AND UTRIK
➥ http://www.bikiniatoll.com/Weisgall%...%207-10-03.pdf

Nice ass, Miss Bikini.

[captsam54]

Gord May.. The previous poster looked interesting because of the avatar.. may be fluff..LOL..

[osirissail]

- -Back to the original question - answer: just about anywhere in the 3rd world or better yet 2.5th world. Once outside the continental borders of the USA, you will find that life does not revolve solely on what is happening in the areas from Boston to San Francisco. Life slows down (really slows down!) and quality of life dramatically increases.
- - There is not better place to live than in the USA if you want "quantity" of life. However, if you want "quality" of life you need to go elsewhere. And that is because as you slow down and start spending five minutes to stop and admire the glorious flowers and other flora each day a sense of peace and wonder re-enters your life. You can choose how much "slowing down to smell the flowers" you want by picking islands in the ranks of 1st to 2nd to finally 3rd world status. As the economic costs significantly decrease you have only two choices: go mad because there is nothing to do; or get out and walk, hike, ride and fill you time with appreciating nature and the simple things (actually the lack of "modern conveniences" means doing stuff the way your great grandmother/grandfather did). All this fills your life with meaning and a feeling of accomplishment. Basically, you back in control of your existence.
- - And unfortunately, even the "simple life" is not free. You must bring substantial resources with you to support yourself/family. So in an "economic collapse" you had better have "protected/insulated" your revenue stream so you can remain in one of these countries. It is just that the required amount of money to live in the islands is dramatically smaller than in the USA.
- - For instance, you can actually live comfortably and in a quite nice home in the Dominican Republic solely on your US Social Security payments. But that is one of the most economical islands. Dominica and St Vincent are also in that category. But you will need more than just your SS money to live in Grenada, St Lucia, Nevis and some more upscale islands. Double that for the French Islands, and the Virgins and Puerto Rico.
- - The cost of living is lower because fewer things are available to purchase which means you really cannot spend your money so you need less. Food is costly but you learn to eat each basic foods and stay away from manufactured food. So food is not cheap (except in the real 3rd world countries) but it is basic good food and you end up saving enormous amounts of money by eliminating medical bills caused by "trash foods."
- - Back to the question - during the recent "global financial collapse" the effect was delayed by at least 6 months in the islands and then the only "hard hit" sector was tourism and tourism related business. Some islands have little or no tourism and life went on as usual. Maybe because when you are already living at the bottom, it cannot go much lower. I would suggest that if the whole 1st world economies collapsed, the little 3rd world countries in the tropics would not know about it unless somebody told them. Of course there are a lot of asterisks on that statement. Food supplies need to be local and you need to be able to live without electricity, TV, and all the standard Walmarts stuff.
- - And in good economic times you can live like a proverbial king/queen in the islands.

[MacG]

May I suggest the Maldivas?

[crazyhorse]

Hows a country who simply goes to the reserve bank and asks them to "materialize" more money going to collapse? The situation would never be allowed to get to the level of the "great depression" (what was great about it?) and besides IF it did the US only needs to bomb Iran or Nth Korea, get a nice big war going to revitalize industry and once victory is secured.. we are all sitting pretty again! (Oh nukes!!.. yes well anyone silly enough to try that with the US won't have to worry about a depression for a half life of 10,000 years! :-)
Someone (who obviously doesn't live here!!) suggested little old nuclear free New Zealand? This place has more violence and racial problems per capita than the US! The Maoris and Pacific Islanders (thanks to TV) now think they are East L.A gansters tagging everything insight, wearing pants 5 sizes too big and driving cars with rubbish bins for exhausts whilst flapping their arms when talking like demented chooks, then theres the drugs.. "P" labs are more previlant than chemist shops! We have the 2nd highest prison population in the WORLD (4 million and 9,000 locked up!) and polluters are everywhere! Algal blooms where you can't even walk your dog along the beach because it might touch something and DIE.
Pick the POOREST Pacific islands, trade with the natives and live off your own abilities. A yacht and the open ocean really is the only way to go.

[crazyhorse]

Originally Posted by MacG

May I suggest the Maldivas?

The Maldives are disappearing under the ocean! So much so, that they are going to introduce a $3 a day tourist tax to help with retaining walls.
Here's something that scientists are yet to work out!! GLOBAL WARMING.. yes the ambient temperature IS melting the ice caps and the oceans ARE going to rise! Inundate New Yorke etc? NO!! The Earth SPINS in space at about 700MPH (or faster?), how does a washing machine work on spin cycle? The Earth will do the same!! All the oceans will be the highest at the EQUATOR and temperate zones will hardly notice the rise.

[Palarran]

Can we forget all that and get back to Bikini Island? I liked the treasure at the end. Yaaowsa

[GordMay]

The Maldives’ tourism tax composes 13% of the government revenue. This contribution is generated through the tourist bed tax levied at a flat rate of $8.00 per tourist bed night.
The new "green" tourist tax, announced Monday (Sept 7/09), is $3.00/day. It's not specifically directed at funding retaining walls.

[hpeer]

My wife and I are arguing quite a bit about this stuff right now. Our personal situation is quite complicated so I won't go into all the details but just a bit of the argument we are having.

Hopefully I'll be able to bring this back to sailing in the end.

I'm of the opinion we should retire NOW (yesterday) and take off cruising. Wife likes her job and wants to work for another 6 to 8 years. Obvious conflict.

We both agree that there are many things that could cause our culture to collapse. And that the situation is too chaotic to predict. As we live in a big city I have advocated that we should have a boat handy to get out of Dodge if needed. If only to sit off shore for a week or two while things cool down, or to think of where the H#$l do we go from here. And we do have places to go. So in that sense having a boat is a form of insurance policy. It gives you options most others don't have.

Another issue is that we have a little money, and it is mostly tied up in the markets. Mine is in a 401K and is harder to get at without taking substantial hits. But, it would make sense to diversify the wealth. I'm not sure that a boat will have intrinsic value in a collapse situation, but then again I'm not sure green backs would either. So this is another form of insurance.

Then there is this idea that we each only have so much time. And time is our most valuable commodity. So why not take out a policy that may buy you some more time and may save some of your wealth? Especially if, at the same time it gives you pleasure? So what if it "costs" something, life insurance costs something but we see the value in it. So I see this as a third type of insurance, fun insurance if you will.

So my DESTINATION, in good times or bad, would be to have a safe, secure, place that gives me some pleasure. That sounds like the boat in itself becomes the DESTINATION.

Now..........if I could just convince the wife of this...........if she just didn't get seasick!

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by hpeer

I'm of the opinion we should retire NOW (yesterday) and take off cruising. Wife likes her job and wants to work for another 6 to 8 years. Obvious conflict. !

Walk out on her now. Go buy a boat you can afford and sail away.

If she does actually love you she will probably come along some time.

If she doesn't love you then you 2 wouldn't survive together on a boat anyway. So get it over with now.

At lest you will have 6-8 years of enjoyment and most of those years with another woman who shares your dreams.

m

[osirissail]

- - Unfortunately it takes money to live and lots of money to live while cruising. Fees, taxes (they never stop), repairs, fuel, food and big one "medical costs." None of it is free. Granted you can probably live on an active cruising boat for about 1/3 of the cost of living on land and working, but that still adds up to money.
- - If you wish to retire you need a steady revenue stream to support yourself. I don't know of any countries that still allow transients to enter and stay without proof that they can also leave or support themselves for the rest of their lives. That means money.
- - Add up all your retirement income from fixed, non-investment sources and subtract that from the realistically derived cost of living on your cruising boat. Any shortage must be made up by investment income. Take the amount of the shortage between fixed non-investment income and your realistic budget for living full time on a cruising boat and divide that by 0.06. That is the minimum amount of investment capital (equity) you will need to accumulate before you can cut the docks lines and sail off into the sunset.
- - I suspect your wife knows that you do not have sufficient equity yet to support yourselves. And she has (?) a good job and in today's job market that is "money in the bank" literally. You have to do the "math" before you can approach her with a realistic justification to sail off. Plus if there are kids and/or grandkids you had best allow a little extra for visits home by air to allow her to keep up with the kids.
- - Seasickness, unless severe, is easily treated with Scopolamine, Sturgeon, or other remedies. However, living together 24/7/365 and liking it, is not something you can take any pills to make work. Your partner and you have to really like being up close and personal with each other most all the time.
- - The various cruiser destinations and stopping points have well developed and fluid "communities" where friends are easily made and social activities abound. So neither of you will be "cut off" from society. It is just a different kind (As Jimmy Buffet says).
- - There are recipes for convincing her to never set foot on the boat again and recipes for gradually getting her to love the boat and lifestyle. That takes work and intelligence on your part.
- - If you two really like being around each other then you compromise making sure you have the equity behind you then you head out "gently" into the new life. If you two really do not like "stepping over each other" figuratively and sometimes literally and really can't stand to be "up close and personal" for more than a short period of time each day - then take the advice offered by others and strike out on your own and find a new partner. Just be sure you have the equity/resources behind you.

[speakeasy]

Originally Posted by hpeer

My wife and I are arguing quite a bit about this stuff right now. Our personal situation is quite complicated so I won't go into all the details but just a bit of the argument we are having.

Hopefully I'll be able to bring this back to sailing in the end.

I'm of the opinion we should retire NOW (yesterday) and take off cruising. Wife likes her job and wants to work for another 6 to 8 years. Obvious conflict.

We both agree that there are many things that could cause our culture to collapse. And that the situation is too chaotic to predict. As we live in a big city I have advocated that we should have a boat handy to get out of Dodge if needed. If only to sit off shore for a week or two while things cool down, or to think of where the H#$l do we go from here. And we do have places to go. So in that sense having a boat is a form of insurance policy. It gives you options most others don't have.

Another issue is that we have a little money, and it is mostly tied up in the markets. Mine is in a 401K and is harder to get at without taking substantial hits. But, it would make sense to diversify the wealth. I'm not sure that a boat will have intrinsic value in a collapse situation, but then again I'm not sure green backs would either. So this is another form of insurance.

Then there is this idea that we each only have so much time. And time is our most valuable commodity. So why not take out a policy that may buy you some more time and may save some of your wealth? Especially if, at the same time it gives you pleasure? So what if it "costs" something, life insurance costs something but we see the value in it. So I see this as a third type of insurance, fun insurance if you will.

So my DESTINATION, in good times or bad, would be to have a safe, secure, place that gives me some pleasure. That sounds like the boat in itself becomes the DESTINATION.

Now..........if I could just convince the wife of this...........if she just didn't get seasick!

If you can put together an income stream (retirement, yield, etc.) of a couple or three thousand, I would, in your place, sell all stock, real estate, tangibles with value and buy a boat with half my cash, fix it up and cruise, living off the dividends. If you think this is a good idea, do it. If she wants to come, bring her. If she comes, you two will create a new world in a new time zone. Just MHO and not to be taken as fiduciary financial advice. SELL

Of course, if it's like below, there could be some stern choices ahead, or not.

[sctpc]

Originally Posted by osirissail

- - Granted you can probably live on an active cruising boat for about 1/3 of the cost of living on land and working, but that still adds up to money.

1/3 that can not include maintenance , docking ect I would say it costs 1/3 more to cruse in a sustainable way corect me if im wrong.