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**roverhi** · 03-03-2012, 10:08

As of last October Boat US required a survey for liability only coverage. They may have changed their policies so might want to check. Progressive did not require a survey and their policy was quite cheap, around $150 with pretty generous tow coverage. It was even less without the deluxe addtions that included towing.

Going without liability coverage is just plain stupid. There are so many ways that you can become liable for something that it boggles the mind. Maybe if you keep the boat on a trailer in your back yard, tow it only on your property to launch, never take anybody out with you, and sail where all evidence of the boat ever existed would be covered by 10,000' of water if anything happened would you be even close to safe.

Just think how expensive it would be if a guest suffered a broken nose getting hit by the boom because they wouldn't listen to you and insisted on standing up to get a beer during a tack. That exact scenario went to 5 figures for a friend of mine.

DrivinSteve · 03-03-2012, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverhi

Going without liability coverage is just plain stupid. T

+1, roverhi, I agree that the risk is way more than a few hundred bucks a year.

Hellosailor, I have not lost one wink over this policy. Not personal, just business. Kinda like airline fares, don't bother to try to see if it makes sense.

As I get older, Barbossa seems to be taking on many different forms.

tager · 03-03-2012, 11:22

Insurance is a scam.

raybrett · 03-03-2012, 11:35

I have a $1,000,000 USAA liability rider. It covers marina requirements and unforeseen incidents underway. It also covers other things such as accidents ashore. I believe it's about $140.00 over my previous policy. I don't know if it would cover me out of county. It's worth it.

sailorboy1 · 03-03-2012, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverhi

As of last October Boat US required a survey for liability only coverage. .

when I got a quote from last year they were 50% higher than my policy with Markel

sailorboy1 · 03-03-2012, 12:08

just where are you uninsured people keeping your boat as I can not believe a marina would allow, plus I would like to know to avoid your locations

Wavewacker · 03-03-2012, 14:16

Let's call it self insuring, not going without...

You might consider how "at risk" you really are without coverage.

I have been through this with uninsured schmucks, They get a ticket and pay the fine. End of issue until I sue. How bad was the damage?

They have to get an attorney. The attorney files, but the court has to be able to serve them notice. Are they going to pay an attorney to track you down, especially a vagabond? Having a mailing address where your boat is registered is not enough, you will usually need to be served.

In the mean time the injured party is paying his attorney who says I can't guarantee that you will win or get anything....

Say you do get served and you don't fight it, you lose and have a judgment against you. Well, that's great, that judgment and a couple bucks will get you coffee in most places.

Now you have to collect. Hire a collections agent or attorney....well, the guy is retired and lives on a pension. Social security can not be garnished under federal law, most states won't garnish other retirement funds.

Now you have to find his money, the attorny can get that after getting a court order. But if nothing but the SS check goes in that account, he can't touch it, only if there are comingled funds from another source or assets.

If you can't get the collection within the time period your judgment will expire, back to the courthouse to get it reinstated. Now, you can continue....

How much was the loss?

What you will find is that most injured parties do not seek indemnification from uninsured parties. Only if it can be determined that they have assets that can be siezed (which usually won't happen unless it's a large judgment) or cash/wages to garnish.

Unless there is a legal requirement to be insured, you will only have a civil case with the injured. If you have a "small" boat that floats into someone damage will probably be limited. Damage must also arise from your negligence, if you acted prudently and it's an act of God storm, well, who knows what hazards are out there.

That's pretty much why liability is so cheap, it's rare, hard to prove and generally losses are small.

But, you could load you boat at a ramp, it breaks lose and rolls down the hill and kills three kids swimming too!

belizesailor · 03-03-2012, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

just where are you uninsured people keeping your boat as I can not believe a marina would allow, plus I would like to know to avoid your locations

Not uncommon for cruisers to be uninsured. Most marinas here in the NW Carib at least don't ask for proof of insurance.

lordgeoff · 03-03-2012, 16:25

I enquired about insurance when doing continental crossings. It just didn't stack up. False insurance documents will get you past any Marina scrutiny. The marinas want the business more than they want to comply with regulations or riders on their Insurance Policies.
When I got back to land and coastal sailing I took out comprehensive insurance but it was very expensive.

clsailor · 03-03-2012, 16:58

Our insurance is based on the agreed value of our boat - set by a surveyor. We have a well known company in the boating industry. After paying 631.00 to insure our 1977 Cheoy Lee Clipper for the Bay, we got a quote of 2,542.00 extra to cruise to the Bahamas. We will be looking for a new company this coming fall. Although the are very good in handling claims we feel that they are pricing themsevles out of the market. One concern is finding a company that will cover an older boat, even though its has been fully restored.

osirissail · 03-03-2012, 19:09

Somewhat like "clsailor" - but the other way around. After a decade in the Caribbean with Liability-only insurance, we came back to Florida.

The new insurance quote was exactly half of what I had been paying and the agent said it was because I excluded the Caribbean and only listed USA east and Gulf coast and Bahamas.

However, we found out that the marinas where we want to keep the boat now want 1/2million $ liability coverage instead of the old $300K. That upped the cost to 3/4 of what we had been paying for the Caribbean.

And after 10 years of coverage and professional surveys every 4 or 5 years, they want a new survey - but - said we could do a "self-survey" which amounted to half a dozen pages of questions about everything on the boat; dates and cost of equipment; and a dozen photos of the interior and exterior of the boat. Took a while to get all that together but the insurance company accepted the survey and we are happy.

Personal experience has been that for short stays, couple/three days, marinas did not want any proof of insurance - you just wrote in the name on the registration form. But for month or more stays they wanted a copy of the binder.

However, I have never had anybody actually follow up and check out the binder I gave them. They just put the "copy" in the our file.

Mike OReilly · 03-03-2012, 19:57

In 2010 the USCG reported there were 6062 recreational vessels involved in accidents. These accidents range from minor groundings to major incidents causing death. These stats include all manner of boats, from small canoes to 65'+ power yachts. The injuries sustained range from sprains and lacerations to amputations and spinal cord fractures (and death).

These are the incidents that somehow get reported, so assume it is a small portion of the actual number of events. Pick a number: 50%? 20%, 10%. Multiply the events by whatever number seems reasonable. Now ask yourself, how many recreational vessels are there in the US? Everything from 14' canoes to mega yachts? How many? Certainly 100's of thousands, probably many millions.

Now, you do the math. What is your actual risk of accident causing damage or injury while boating?

Insurance is a method of mitigating risk, but there are plenty of other ways to do this. Many of these methods are encompassed under notions of good seamanship. Please consider this before rushing to accusation regarding intellectual ability of others who chose to think rationally about risk, and select other mitigation methods.

four winds · 03-03-2012, 20:47

Haven't been asked about insurance in the first two years of ownership. Three marinas in Florida, 10 months, 1 month and 1 week stays. On the hook for 3 months was the best experience so far.

Just got liability only here in Alabama. Required by the marina to have $300k naming the marina in policy. They were going to terminate my lease at the end of the month unless I got coverage. Me and a bunch of others.

Most wanted an out of water insurance survey that I don't have but price was around $225. One local agent wanted $780 with no survey for liability only.

Ended up with Progressive day before yesterday, $380 with no survey. Not pleased, but my dockage is $150 per month, cable, wifi, quiet residential area, and 10 minutes to a day sail on the bay. So I wasn't ready to move on yet.

Don't have any other type of insurance of any kind. Not a fan.