Foul Weather Gear.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Weyalan

Unlike many of the gimmicks, gadgets and "must haves" of yachting, foulies are (generally) something that you will use and will use often. There are plenty of places where you can save a dollar and choose "good enough", but, for mine, weather gear">foul weather gear is not one of thise places. As has been pointed out, breathable gear is way, way more comfortable than non-breathable. Yes, you pay a hafty amount more for good quality breathable gear over non-breathable, but for me it is worth the difference. I sail in some pretty full on conditions, so if wearing good quality breathable foulies makes me a yuppy, well then color me yuppy!

Until recently, I'd have said Musto HPX or MPX would be the top choice, but I have heard one or two mutterings about Musto quality not being as good as it used to be. I currently have old Musto breathable pants (bib & brace), and Helly Hansen Ocean breathable jacket. I like Helly Hansen, but I suspect I will only get 5 or 6 year out of it before I'll have to replace.

As a general rule, genuine GoreTex fabric does seem to last better than other breathable fabrics.

*For me,* snatching a bargain made sense. I am unlikely to even need heavy foulies, so if it's hot or sweaty I'll suck it up.

[jackdale]

Dugout

I have trouble with your "world wide fact". The only Grundens or equivalents that I see are on fisherman. I had a set of yellow PVC when I started and soon switched to hi-tech stuff; first a set of HH coastal (the stuff in my avatar) and then to my present gear.

I sail in the Pacific Northwest and have sailed every month of the year. The coldest condition I have sailed were actually in August, 2000 about 300 miles offshore. That convinced me to move up to offshore gear, from my coastal gear. No regrets.

I will admit that rather than hi-tech gloves I wear rubber work gloves with HH liners (from my local Mark's Work Wearhouse).

Offshore, when I am not wearing boots for warmth, I wear closed-toe sandals.

I use similar layering to you. Except I wear quick drying hiking pants under the foulies in wet tropical conditions.

[Auzzee]

Originally Posted by dugout

it's a world wide fact

Oh?

[Dockhead]

I sail in the English Channel. Summer and winter. That automatically makes me an expert on foul weather

Correspondingly, I have a big collection of foul weather gear from every possible maker, including breathable "yachtie" stuff and non-breathable "fisherman" stuff. Like Jackdale, I very strongly prefer the breathable stuff, which makes a vast difference in comfort when you're out in snotty, cold weather for many hours at a time.

I don't see a lot to choose between the various brands -- it's all good -- Musto, Gill, Henri Lloyd, etc. I have a little bit of all of it. There is one "bargain brand" -- "XM" -- which is actually a great bargain, half the cost of the others and perhaps 10% sacrifice of quality.

I like the "Underarmour" thermal underwear, and especially -- the socks. Although it is ridiculously overpriced. But if you spend enough weeks, months and years out in cold, rainy, windy weather, you gradually stop caring so much how expensive your clothes are. If you get your clothes just right, you can be warm and comfortable in just about any conditions, and you soon learn that it is worth any amount of money to achieve that.

The "fisherman" type non-breathable stuff is fine for moderate periods of time, but after a while, especially if you're working hard, your sweat starts to condense inside it, which is nasty, and eventually, miserable. I guess actual commercial fisherman don't have any choice, since they have to hose themselves off at the end of every day, but for us I don't think it's the best choice. I keep that stuff for when I have a lot of people on board and run out of the "yachtie" breathable stuff. Thank God for Goretex!

[dugout]

Originally Posted by Auzzee

Oh?

I find it amusing that some might think yacht club sailors are anything but the tiniest fraction of those who go to sea "worldwide". Maybe I should clairify the statement by saying professional mariners. Those who do it for a living and those who can afford anything they choose. I'm done with this silly debate of facts. Wear what you want, justify it as you choose and most importantly, be happy. I'll be warm and dry, thank you.

[laxaholic]

Is this debate really needed?

For what it's worth, crossed the Atlantic in a Musto Offshore jacket, West Marine bib, and a baseball cap.
Wore a hoodie underneath if it got cold, had old gil boots from regatta sailing, but ended up preferring ratty sneakers or no shoes at all, even if it were chilly.

I could afford all of it at 20years old, so i got what was needed and what would work.

Buy what works for you, fits your budget, yuppy or not, do what works for you.

Cheers

[Bash]

Originally Posted by dugout

...and your point is??? The OP can get two sets of Grundens and Servus knee boots for what you paid for your yuppy yacht club boots.

Yuppy yacht club boots?

I'm guessing you thought you were on one of those other forums where the members routinely engage in clever sorts of name calling. This is Cruisers Forum. We don't do that here.

[Bash]

Amazing. People getting into fights over brand names. Of course, that's what the OP asked for, isn't it?

In the higher-end, breathable gear, one brand is pretty much as good as another despite all the marketing hype. However, the fit is different from one to the other. Best bet is to try each one on, even if this entails visiting multiple chandleries, and then going with the gear that best fits your proportions. Buy foulies for comfort, not for status.

Can't help as far as the cheap stuff; I don't deal with a lot of fish guts either. Feels like it, though, when someone starts a What's-the-best-brand? thread.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by laxaholic

Is this debate really needed?

For what it's worth, crossed the Atlantic in a Musto Offshore jacket, West Marine bib, and a baseball cap.
Wore a hoodie underneath if it got cold, had old gil boots from regatta sailing, but ended up preferring ratty sneakers or no shoes at all, even if it were chilly.

I could afford all of it at 20years old, so i got what was needed and what would work.

Buy what works for you, fits your budget, yuppy or not, do what works for you.

Cheers

The OP asked for recommendations on foul weather gear.

[Hannah on 'Rita T']

I would just add a plug for smart wool socks, I can stand almost anything except cold feet and hands.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Hannah on 'Rita T'

I would just add a plug for smart wool socks, I can stand almost anything except cold feet and hands.

Wool socks are good; I find the polypropylene layered stuff even better in cold weather (Musto makes good and cheap "technical" socks). SealSkinz makes waterproof socks -- in case you think you might get water in your boots.

Don't forget the mid layer -- for cold weather, a wind-proof fleece overall is good to have underneath your waterproof stuff. Mine is Musto, but I think all the companies make them.

Goretex snowmobile gloves work great in below-freezing weather (I don't think anyone makes actual sailing gloves for those conditions). I also like to wear a neoprene ski mask, if the temperature is below freezing.

[jackdale]

I tell my students that sailing is much like skiing. Do not buy the really expensive stuff until you find out if you like the activity. Then build up your gear based on what you can afford.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I tell my students that sailing is much like skiing. Do not buy the really expensive stuff until you find out if you like the activity. Then build up your gear based on what you can afford.

Not bad advice, but I also observe that you should buy for latitude. For Dockhead to be using snowmobile gloves up at Lat 50 makes sense. Down here at Lat 38, I need a set of bibs that I can wear in summer winds and fog without overheating. Unfortunately, this necessitates two sets of foulies: inshore and offshore. And I tend to buy my sailing gloves in the hardware store, not the chandlery.

A couple years ago Santa brought me a pair of cashmere socks. Wow. Better than those coolmax things I used to wear in the sea boots.

[foolishsailor]

Originally Posted by dugout

. I must say 500 bucks for designer sea boots is a little over the top when 50 dollar boots keep feet warm and dry.

Says someone who has never worn Dubarrys? And 500 is a stretch, I get mine for 120€ but I live in Ireland where they are made so maybe that's why.

My dad taught me that when you are buying a tool always buy the best you can afford and if you cant afford a good tool then save for it.

If you buy a 10,000€ Felder saw to make the occasional birdhouse for your wife you are a wealthy yuppy with a hobby, but if you are a professional carpenter it makes good sense.

You are right, if you are a club sailor who rarely leaves the dock and never the bay then high end gear doesn't make sense, but if you are sailing for income on a professional or semi professional basis then you are a fool to not spend e money to buy the best gear you can for comfort. Comfort equals safety as well, if you are miserable you get exhausted more quickly.

Buying good gear doesn't make one a yuppy club member. And anyway what's wrong with belonging to a yacht club? I belong to one, race every weekend, have worked blue collar and white collar jobs, sailed over 70k blue water miles paid and for pleasure...Does that mean my gear choices are suspect?

pigeon holes and categories and stereotypes suck.

Oh and Dockhead, I sail Dublin bay and e Irish Sea all year so I trump your English Channel!

[carstenb]

I'll toss in my two cents. Henri lloyld for me, cause the pants fit better. Had helly which was good except for the pants fit. I sail the Baltic, cold, foggy, and wet. Unless we are beating DDW we are usually dressed in foulies, all year round.

For winter gloves I have a pair of goretx motorcycle gloves. These work really well, as they are completely windproof

If it is cold enough I go for layers, long silk underwear, wool turtle neck, thin sweater, foulies. Keeps me warm.

And dry