Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-02-2009, 11:31   #16
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Bill: I presume you were using the American system.

But the scientific community seems to use the American system.
And internationally when counting money (am not there yet ).

Funnily enough when the Italian Lira was still in existence an "English Billion" (1 Million Millions) was something that needed to be dealt with on the bean counting side.....sometimes with the old fashioned paper ledgers if the computer couldn't cope
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 11:35   #17
MV
Registered User
 
MV's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Boat: Willard 8 Ton World Cruiser
Posts: 461
Images: 24
Send a message via Yahoo to MV
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
The money wasn't there in the first place. and then it got spent.

It's easier to understand if you relate to things personally. If you spent money you didn't have, lets say 5 times your salary every year for 10 years, you wouldn't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that sooner or later a day of reckoning would arrive........and by Karumba (sp? ) that day has arrived
Then by your logic, the money being used to bail out does not exist either? Correct? Not being smartass -- just genuinely confused.
__________________

__________________
MV is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 11:53   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 238
Quote:
Number of zeros ~ U.S. & scientific community ~ Other countries
3 - thousand - thousand
6 - million - million
9 - billion - 1000 million (1 milliard)
12 - trillion - billion
15 - quadrillion - 1000 billion
18 - quintillion - trillion

What Americans call a trillion (1,000,000,000,000) , some others only call a billion
I love this forum. I didn't even know that. Wow...the knowledge. I'm gonna go Google. Thanks Gord.
__________________
Failure is most often times a temporary condition........
Giving up is what makes it permanent.



Bill Burgette is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 13:16   #19
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
My guess...

My guess is that the money has gone to :-
1) China and related Asian countries, courtesy of an artificially low exchange rate.
2) Arab countries, courtesy of high oil prices.
3) Offshore accounts of some captains of industry.

Any other thoughts?
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 14:28   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Oz
Boat: Jarcat 5, 5m, Mandy
Posts: 419
It is interesting to consider how money came into existence in the first place. It started with tangible things of value like shells or lumps of metal to avoid the complexities of a barter system where A had some surplus chickens and wanted some grain; B had some surplus grain and wanted some timber; and C had some surplus timber and wanted some chickens. After a while the money system became more centralised and rather than actually carrying gold bullion around, banks issued promissory notes instead. Eventually they decided they didn't need to have the gold as back up and the countries simply printed the money. The value of money is now based purely on expectations and trust Once interest on treasury bonds comes into it then things get a bit more complicated and economies get a bit more vulnerable. If the economy slows down and they can't meet those interest rates, then they can quickly get into big problems.

When a country bases its economy originally on cheap local energy and efficient manufacturing but becomes affluent enough to then buy cheap goods from overseas and is dependent on transport that gobbles up imported energy, its balance of trade goes out the window. It becomes propped up by the countries selling the goods to keep their economies rolling along and not wanting to devalue the dollar they have invested in. It becomes inevitable there is going to be a crash.

Long term as long as people have a roof over their head and enough tucker in their bellies, it doesn't matter too much, but because of the imbalance their has been gross inflation of housing prices and our systems don't cater for having surplus stock and homeless people if the money doesn't change hands. Similarly for getting food in our bellies.

Longer term, unless we organise a way to become more efficient with our energy demands and find more sustainable means of generating it, I can't see a viable economic recovery. You can't expect economic growth in a throw away economy if the raw materials become more expensive
__________________
Robertcateran is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 14:49   #21
Registered User
 
Christian Van H's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Princeton, NJ
Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42
Posts: 2,097
Images: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
The more taxes one supplies, the more taxes the Dem's demand.
This is a non-political forum, and I take offense to this posting.
__________________
www.anacapas.com

Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women!
Christian Van H is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 15:39   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Van H View Post
This is a non-political forum, and I take offense to this posting.
I don't see how it made it to page two. This thing would have been locked a long time ago a few weeks ago.

I like the fact that boat prices are coming down though.
__________________
Therapy is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 16:41   #23
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
I cannot work out where all the money has gone.

Made me think about this old song from "The Oils"

Quote:
Midnight Oil
Read About It lyrics


The rich get richer, the poor get the picture
The bombs never hit you when you're down so low
Some got pollution, some revolution
There must be some solution but I just don't know
The bosses want decisions, the workers need ambitions
There won't be no collisions when they move so slow
Nothing ever happens, nothing really matters
No one ever tells me so what am I to know
You wouldn't read about it, read about it
Just another incredible scene, there's no doubt about it
Hammer and the sickle, the news is at a trickle
The commissars are fickle but the stockpile grows
Bombers keep acoming, engines softly humming
The stars and stripes are running for their own big show
Another little flare up, storm brewed in a tea cup
Imagine any mix up and the lot would go
Nothing ever happens...
You wouldn't read about it, read about it
One unjust ridiculous steal, ain't no doubt about it
You wouldn't read about it, read about it
Just another particular deal, there's no doubt about it
(Hirst/Moginie/Garrett)
AND, a fantastic film clip

For those that dont know Peter Garrett, (lead singer) is now an Australian Politician Peter Garrett :: Home

__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 16:49   #24
Registered User
 
Captain Jaz's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Ocean
Boat: Bruce Robert 360 - 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 355
Images: 17
This movie explains it very well - Free Movies & Documentaries - Zeitgeist: Addendum (2008)

Note - This is not an illegal link, the movie was meant for public distribution by its makers (listed as Public Domain).
__________________
'Anyhow, a philosophical turn of thought now was not amiss, else one's patience would have given out almost at the harbour entrance.' ~ Joshua Slocum
Captain Jaz is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 16:51   #25
Registered User
 
Christian Van H's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Princeton, NJ
Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42
Posts: 2,097
Images: 57
That Midnight Oil Vid was great! Thanks for that, I love those guys!
__________________
www.anacapas.com

Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women!
Christian Van H is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 17:31   #26
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Bill: I presume you were using the American system.

The system used in the U.S. is not as logical as that used in other countries (like Great Britain, France, and Germany). In these other countries, a billion (bi meaning two) has twice as many zeros as a million, and a trillion (tri meaning three) has three times as many zeros as a million, etc. But the scientific community seems to use the American system.

Here is a table of large numbers:

Number of zeros ~ U.S. & scientific community ~ Other countries
3 - thousand - thousand
6 - million - million
9 - billion - 1000 million (1 milliard)
12 - trillion - billion
15 - quadrillion - 1000 billion
18 - quintillion - trillion

What Americans call a trillion (1,000,000,000,000) , some others only call a billion.
Things have been changing for a while
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion_(word)

Current usage


Most English-language countries use the short scale. For example:

Australia Canada (English-speaking) Hong Kong (English-speaking) Ireland (English-speaking) New Zealand Philippines (English-speaking: Some short-scale words have been adopted into Filipino.) South Africa (English-speaking) Singapore (English-speaking) United Kingdom United States
Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising – It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 18:48   #27
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
To upgrade Yogi A trillion Here a Trillion there...pretty soon we'll be talking about real money
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 19:10   #28
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 769
Unlike energy, wealth is not conserved. Wealth can be created and destroyed. When you invent a widget with your brain, and folks want to buy it, you've created wealth. When society decides they no longer want the widget, wealth is destroyed.

When nobody's minding the store, wealth can be created in the short term on a lie (either explicitly like in Bernie Madoff ponzi schemes, or implicitly like in some Wall Street derivatives). In the longer term, this type balances out to zero, (just a redistribution). It's actually a net negative, when you consider the opportinity cost of hatching the scheme, then the inevitable investigation and prosecution.

I'd like to see somebody tally up the net real losses on Wall Street (not the inflated losses) and compare with what was extracted in broker bonuses for the past few years.

I'll start building the guillotine. Vive Le Roi, indeed.
__________________
anotherT34C is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 19:50   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
WEALTH!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
We seem to be conflating Money with Wealth.
As Adam Smith understood, money itself is not wealth; instead, it is a good that we use in order to obtain wealth.
Wealth is something that has real value (lasting asset) in meeting our needs and fulfilling our wants (valued by people).

Having more money does not insure happiness. For instance, people with a hundred million dollars are probably no happier than people with ninety million dollars.
I've always considered wealth as something you can not lose. For instance, I was taught to build your skill level as high as you can go, so no matter where you go you can make money. Some call that a "Jack of Trades". This is real wealth.

"Assets" are the tools that one uses to also make money, not the money itself. So, if you have wealth and assets you'll always be able to make money. The rest is enthusiasm! By the amount of enthusiasm will determine how Rich in money one gets.

But in my case, I spent most of my fortune on pretty boats and fast woman. Or was it fast boats and pretty woman Anyway, the rest I just wasted!

But I still have the skills, boat and tools. Now, if I can only keep some of my youth and health.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline  
Old 05-02-2009, 20:09   #30
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
If you are really intersted in where money comes from this is a great video about money. It is called Money as Debt. Be careful it is really scary. The videos take about 47 minutes to watch.





__________________

__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What to buy a Mother-in-Law Stillraining Off Topic Forum 10 26-12-2008 03:30
South Carolina Changes Law zackc Atlantic & the Caribbean 3 01-08-2008 06:19
Admirality Law... shadow Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 13 02-03-2008 21:31
Economics of putting your cat in Charter? Limpet Multihull Sailboats 32 05-01-2007 13:36
Law and Custom question snakebird General Sailing Forum 2 03-03-2005 09:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.