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Old 10-12-2009, 10:45   #31
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Originally Posted by kevingy View Post
... and you can deduct the interest you pay from your income taxes.
True, and even on a boat loan... If your boat or RV has a bed, a head and a kitchen you can deduct the interest you pay....as a second home..
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:47   #32
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Boats are toys. If you canít pay cash for your toys, then you need to rethink what you want to do.
Boats are not always toys. If a boat if your home, it's a toy - at least not entirely. That said, lenders don't like to lend to live aboards.
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Old 14-12-2009, 07:59   #33
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Originally Posted by HobieFan View Post
I had the same issue - I ended up finding a really nice Cal 34 that was 32 years old for $10k and bought it for cash.

All together with repairs, maintenance, and taxes and insurance, cost me under $15k. I have a few more things to update before I'm really happy with it, but a 34 footer with a full kit of GPS and radar and stuff can be found in your price range for cash.

Keep poking around!
Agreed. It appears that Westsail 32's command a hefty premium simply due to their reputation. A person can certainly find much more boat for the money in this economy.
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Old 14-12-2009, 09:13   #34
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Agreed. It appears that Westsail 32's command a hefty premium simply due to their reputation. A person can certainly find much more boat for the money in this economy.
Being that we're inexperienced and what are goals are, its worth it to us to pay a premium for a boat with an excellent reputation.
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Old 14-12-2009, 09:26   #35
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Agreed. It appears that Westsail 32's command a hefty premium simply due to their reputation. A person can certainly find much more boat for the money in this economy.
There's another side to that coin, admittedly coming from a Westsail owner. Extremely solid and well-built boats with an excellent reputations command a higher price, but they retain their value. Westsails have basically depreciated completely in line with inflation, with little or nothing deducted for age per se (they're usually well maintained, albeit with sad exceptions). They originally sold for 50 or 60K new in the 70s and sell for the same dollar amount today. So when you sell, you'll put the same wad of cash back into your pocket that you took out when you bought.
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Old 14-12-2009, 10:04   #36
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PAY CASH, PAY CASH, PAY CASH. Do not, if you can possibly avoid it, finance your boat. Put your money away and keep looking. You will either find a good deal on a boat you like or maybe have enough money saved for the boat of your dreams. Don't get sucked onto home equity loans for a boat. Your home will eventually increase in value. Your boat, almost without exception(even Westsails or my Pacific Seacraft), is a money losing proposition. I am the only person(private party) I know who has actually made money on a boat in recent years. Small power boat, good profit. Certainly not enough to retire on though. Keep your money in your pocket and keep looking for a great deal. They ARE out there.

If you HAVE to sell a mortgaged boat you WILL be financing some one elses "great deal" and getting to pay for it too.........m
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Old 14-12-2009, 10:24   #37
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There's another side to that coin, admittedly coming from a Westsail owner. Extremely solid and well-built boats with an excellent reputations command a higher price, but they retain their value. Westsails have basically depreciated completely in line with inflation, with little or nothing deducted for age per se (they're usually well maintained, albeit with sad exceptions). They originally sold for 50 or 60K new in the 70s and sell for the same dollar amount today. So when you sell, you'll put the same wad of cash back into your pocket that you took out when you bought.
Well, that depends. I've seen several Westsail 32's advertised recently in the $50k neighborhood that I wouldn't give $20k for since they obviously need $30k worth of refitting just to make them seaworthy (less if you do the work yourself, of course).

A 30-year-old boat is going to need a complete going over whether it's a Westsail or not, so the name makes little difference in deciding whether the boat is seaworthy or not. The question is.....when has the boat last had a complete repair/replacement of her major systems...including throughhulls and seacocks, and how much is it going to cost to do a complete refit if she hasn't. That's what you base the boat's value on....not her name or reputation.
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Old 14-12-2009, 10:39   #38
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Well, that depends. I've seen several Westsail 32's advertised recently in the $50k neighborhood that I wouldn't give $20k for since they obviously need $30k worth of refitting just to make them seaworthy (less if you do the work yourself, of course).

A 30-year-old boat is going to need a complete going over whether it's a Westsail or not, so the name makes little difference in deciding whether the boat is seaworthy or not. The question is.....when has the boat last had a complete repair/replacement of her major systems...including throughhulls and seacocks, and how much is it going to cost to do a complete refit if she hasn't. That's what you base the boat's value on....not her name or reputation.
Couldn't agree more. I too have seen several Westsails (and other reputable boats) worth half their asking price. Well maintained means exactly what it says, everything in good shape, especially rigging, and items with limited life either recently replaced or with significant life remaining. Obviously one doesn't put down a lot of money on ANY boat for the pleasure of doing a refit. As in all else, let the buyer beware.

In agreement with a previous poster, a boat is absolutely NOT an investment because, like trailers, they never appreciate. No one sails for free. In fact, if sailors calculated the true dollars per mile or dollars per hour actually sailing, we might find even more of a buyer's market.
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Old 14-12-2009, 10:40   #39
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Being that we're inexperienced and what are goals are, its worth it to us to pay a premium for a boat with an excellent reputation.
Go for it then. Unfortunately, what decides whether the particular boat in question is worthy of the reputation is; when her throughhulls and seacocks were all last changed, what are the hours and condition of the engine, what's the state of the electrical system, when have the deck fittings last been removed and rebedded, what is the condition of the interior wood, what is the condition of the hull and keel....that kind of stuff. Not her maker's reputation or the cosmetic condition, i.e. 'Bristol finish'.
It's the difference between a completely restored 1977 Pontiac TransAm, and a 1977 Pontiac TransAm with a new Maaco paint job and newly ArmorAll'd interior.
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Old 14-12-2009, 11:07   #40
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Go for it then. Unfortunately, what decides whether the particular boat in question is worthy of the reputation is; when her throughhulls and seacocks were all last changed, what are the hours and condition of the engine, what's the state of the electrical system, when have the deck fittings last been removed and rebedded, what is the condition of the interior wood, what is the condition of the hull and keel....that kind of stuff. Not her maker's reputation or the cosmetic condition, i.e. 'Bristol finish'.
It's the difference between a completely restored 1977 Pontiac TransAm, and a 1977 Pontiac TransAm with a new Maaco paint job and newly ArmorAll'd interior.

I'm assuming that whatever boat I buy will end up needing all systems gone over and replaced if found lacking. When I'm talking about reputation I'm not just talking about the rigging and systems. I'm talking about the reputation of the interior layout for storage, the quality of the cabinets, the boats reputation for leaking, having deck core rot out, etc etc etc. How many have survived collisions? Stuff you don't really consider normal system upkeep but stuff that does come around from time to time. I don't want to buy something that the hull to deck joint is known to leak or that has had problems with keel bolts, or anything that has compression post problems, etc etc.

The westsail is one of many boats that comes with a good reputation, and I feel its probably because lots of these problems are minimized or easily fixable. I'm not saying you can't find more boat for the money. I'm not saying a westsail is flawless or won't have problems, but what I am saying is when everyone says you can get a lot of milage out of a Toyota, its probably for a good reason. And if you don't PERSONALLY have all the experience to find that wonderful super awesome value deal, then sometimes mob mentality can work in your favor.
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Old 29-12-2009, 07:53   #41
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been reading the post here, we are new sailors on the great lakes based in hammond/east chicago area (s. tip of lake michigan).

We purchased 79 27'oday diesel, sails, good hull and simple electronics and good sails. out of pocke $3,450.00. Yea, some of the newer boats had more room and were sleek looking.

Am exceptionally handy, rebuilt the rudder, did some wiring, paint, glass work (helped taking the West System fiberglass repair school), new bottom paint, led for light, converter and charger systems, batteries, maybe another $1,100.

Sails just as well as the $60,000 boats. .
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