Finance/Repo Advice Needed.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by rognvald

I am very disappointed, but not surprised, at the comments of some of the respondants who advise to hide the boat and renege on your obligation. Let me ground you in the reality of 21st Century American jurisprudence and established practice by lending institutions.
1. If you want to destroy your 800 credit score, take the advice of the
the backporch attorneys and hide the boat and cease
communication. Every month you are in arrears, your credit score
will decline and the repo men will be looking for your boat. If they
believe they cannot recover their collateral/property, they will
charge-off the account and send verification to the credit bureaus:
Equifax and Trans Union. This negative report is as serious as a
repossession or a mortgage foreclosure and will prevent you
from obtaining any credit in the future.

2. If you want to have an amenable end to this personal tragedy, do
not cease communication with your lender but attempt to plan
a real resolution to your problem where their collateral is
protected and you continue to show "good faith" in making
payments, if even partial. Be certain that they believe you
will resolve your present difficulties and reaffirm your obligation.
If you are having difficulty in reaching an agreement, a qualified
attorney should be able to get the job done. Remember, the loan
company really doesn't want your boat, their want their money.

3. Your tragedy is real. Do not compound your problems by doing
the wrong thing.


Good luck, good sailing and I hope you will resolve your problem successfully.

I think there is a big difference in saying leave the boat where it is and "hiding the boat". Secondly, no one here is being a backdoor attorney. That's your coin of a phrase to something you are not in agreement with. The OP clearly stated in his last line..."Any advice would be appreciated". Now if you're done with the soap box, I need it for my go-cart derby.

[Capt Phil]

Don't think anyone was advising to renege on a debt rather try and preserve your asset upon which you owe $.
Talk to your lender and affirm you plan on paying what you owe but you need some time to get on your feet. That might mean returning to the US, getting a job and paying while keeping your asset hidden. Not an attorney nor is this legal advice... just thinkin' what I would do under the same circumstances.
When you agree to pay someone and they have a note, whether it is secured or not, your word is on the line and, while old fashioned, your word should be your bond. Things would go much smoother if folks behaved that way. Just sayin', Phil

[Tony B]

I am amazed about the posts advocating breaking the law. Some of you might think it's him against the finance company and because of his unfortunate circumstances it's OK to break the law. Not being a lawyer, I would think that someone hiding a boat in a foreign country is stealing the boat- for whatever reason. I remember about 30 years ago or so, an old friend bought a car and financed it. She moved out of state and subsequently was unemployed in a different state. She hadn't made any payments because she was unemployed. They didn't Repo. They had her arrested for grand theft.
So, if you are looking for sympathy from me - forget it. All sympathy ends when you break the law. As for morality and character I can only assume if you do this you will do something else illegal or immoral in the future, of course you will probably have a good excuse for it.
It's people like you that help drive up the costs of insurance that I have to pay. I know that is not a concern of yours because you are wrapped up in how to keep the boat and not have to work or pay for it.
You know what the right thing to do is or you wouldn't be here trying to get approval to make yourself feel better.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Tony B

I am amazed about the posts advocating breaking the law. Some of you might think it's him against the finance company and because of his unfortunate circumstances it's OK to break the law. Not being a lawyer, I would think that someone hiding a boat in a foreign country is stealing the boat- for whatever reason. I remember about 30 years ago or so, an old friend bought a car and financed it. She moved out of state and subsequently was unemployed in a different state. She hadn't made any payments because she was unemployed. They didn't Repo. They had her arrested for grand theft.
So, if you are looking for sympathy from me - forget it. All sympathy ends when you break the law. As for morality and character I can only assume if you do this you will do something else illegal or immoral in the future, of course you will probably have a good excuse for it.
It's people like you that help drive up the costs of insurance that I have to pay. I know that is not a concern of yours because you are wrapped up in how to keep the boat and not have to work or pay for it.
You know what the right thing to do is or you wouldn't be here trying to get approval to make yourself feel better.

You know its not actually illegal to not pay off a debt. It might not be moral or honest, but the US legal codes don't generally put folks in prison who can't pay their debt. They will put you in prison for contempt, but not for the debt.

Just like its completely legal for Apple, GM, etc. to hide hundred of billions in profits in offshore subsidiary's from the IRS.

[Capt Phil]

Not sure where anyone got the idea that Gemini was talking about not paying... I got the impression that he was reluctant to give up his home for pennies on the dollar but wanted to pay off the debt as soon as he got on his feet which might be sooner than later if his attorney can help him collect from the insurance company that is trying to stiff him on paying off his fire insurance claim on his duplex. It would be funny if the carrier of his fire insurance policy was somehow hooked up with the lender on the note for his boat! Just sayin'... Phil

[ShaktisBoy]

TonyB wrote:

So, if you are looking for sympathy from me - forget it. All sympathy ends when you break the law. As for morality and character I can only assume if you do this you will do something else illegal or immoral in the future, of course you will probably have a good excuse for it.


Hogwash!

Hes trying to save his home from being sold off for far less than he has invested. Hes saying he expects to be made whole soon and needs time. Nowhere did I read he intends to not pay the debt he owes. I think he should pay extra interest on the extra time needed. I think as was suggested he makes every effort to communicate that fact to his lender. I think he has the moral responsibility to do whatever it takes to make it right,
What some of you jack a@&$s sugest effectively put him under a bridge and back to square 1, no home no job nothing. Seriously some of you moral police should get off your high horses and take a good hard look in the mirror. By the way I also think there may be some recent examples in the real estate market of just this kind of thing happening with goverment approval no less. How many folks with dirt dwellings got huge extensions on their McMansions when all of a sudden they couldnt make their mortage payments? Why is the OPs situation less deserving of the same kind of understanding?

[onestepcsy37]

bottom line, you basically have two choices.

1. take the boat back to the states and live on it there. get a job and start making payments. eventually the whole mess will be sorted out and you can resume your cruise.

2. run and hide.

what you do will reveal something about yourself, to yourself, that you might never have known.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

bottom line, you basically have two choices.

1. take the boat back to the states and live on it there. get a job and start making payments. eventually the whole mess will be sorted out and you can resume your cruise.

Somewhat simplistic, as once the boat is in US waters, the bank can repo the boat immediately and still leave a large debt to be paid off. Happens all the time.

That does not protect the money the OP currently has in the vessel.

His current course of letting the lawyers deal with it is actually prudent.

[cortezsailor]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Somewhat simplistic, as once the boat is in US waters, the bank can repo the boat immediately and still leave a large debt to be paid off. Happens all the time.

That does not protect the money the OP currently has in the vessel.

His current course of letting the lawyers deal with it is actually prudent.

How about taking a equity mortgage out on the land the 4 plex is on and use that to keep the boat payments current?

[ohdrinkboy]

Have you talked with a bankruptcy attorney. Even if you don't file bankruptcy, the attorney might be able to buy you some time with the lender. The lender does not want you to file bankruptcy.

Be prepared for your credit cards to get cut off as your credit score drops. Also, a good repo guy can use the data to track you down.

Go to cash...sell some gear, and use the bankruptcy attorney to buy you some time.....oh and turn off your AIS if you have it.

[Tony B]

Sailorchick: I agree, they will not put you in jail for debt. They might however, put you in jail for is hiding the boat. The boat belongs to the finance company. And no, it is not legal for the large corporations to hide money in offshore accounts. They just haven't been caught yet.

Capt Phil: I got the idea that he wasn't really wanting to pay because nowhere did I see him mention coming back to the US. getting a job and working out something with the lender.

Shatkis: Reread his intentions. his only intentions are waiting to see how the insurance thing works out. Until then he would like to remain in hiding. And if the insurance don't work out? The OP's situation is less deserving because he is out of the country and trying to see if he can stay out of the country. I am not on my high horse and I don't have to look in the mirror. I have been close to destitute at one time in my life. I WORKED my way out. Only a jacka$$ would not consider working their way out.

One step: +1

[ShaktisBoy]

Sorry Tony when I re-read yours and the OPs post i still think you come off as somehow morally superior. Lets get the final statement up from the op,s first post.

"Please understand, I am not trying to screw the bank. I just need time to rectify the situation"

If you read his entire post he is saying hes in central america and wondering how he should proceed. He states his lawyer thinks it will work out and ultimately he will be compensated.

You also state that the bank owns the boat. I say the bank owns the not paid for part of the boat. I have no idea if he owes 45k or 150k. From the information I have he has up until now been paying his monthly note. My comment directed toward you was simple. You would have this man allow his total investment to be sold off at pennies on the dollar while sitting there with your snoot in the air saying he should just sail home give the boat up and go find work. Oh that all sounds great in theory. Did you miss the part that he's of retirement age? Did you somehow fail to see he's out of money and a long long way from the good ole USA? Im pretty sure its going to cost him a ton just to get back. Are you so sure a fellow who has been retired for a few years is just going to walk right back into corporate America and pick up where he left off? Read the news much? Jobs are hard to come by and he will be competing with college grads most likely for just about any job out there. It's this kind of non critical evaluation all of the facts at hand that just drives me nuts. I say thanks to the few folks who actually gave some useful information to the OP. In particular the post that said he may be able to claim homestead status. Thats useful. Whats not useful is going off on a tangent saying if he does not come directly home he's breaking the law and that means he will do some other criminal act later. Again you on your high horse. This poor guy is in a pickle. Maybe we could take up a collection for him? He can pay us back if the insurance does the morally correct thing. Funny how we don't hold our financial institutions to the same moral standards the common people hold for one another.

Rant over... For now

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Tony B

Sailorchick: I agree, they will not put you in jail for debt. They might however, put you in jail for is hiding the boat. The boat belongs to the finance company. And no, it is not legal for the large corporations to hide money in offshore accounts. They just haven't been caught yet.

Ah but the corporations are not hiding the money at all. It sits in subsidiaries banks in other countries with favorable tax rates, all up in up and completely legal. BUT its still hiding tax funds legally from the US.

Actually the boat is collateral and is not the property of the bank, until title is transferred to it.

The OP has said he intends to make the loan right. He just has to the insurance co to play ball. He still owns the land the apartments sits on. To turn the boat, their only home, over to the bank would be poor business.

[Capt Phil]

I could have been wrong or maybe I was reading into his tale of woe that he really wasn't trying to duck the debt, but he desperately wanted to hang onto his only home and was willing to live up to his financial commitment.
If he is currently out of country living aboard but his only option is to return to the US to earn a living and begin his long trudge back to financial solvency... something that is difficult to do offshore.
Why should he throw away the tiny bit of equity he has in this world of money grabbing, insensitive banker types who are only interested in squeezing the little guy?
Perhaps I'm making a big leap of faith in believing that his intentions are honorable but I would take that leap based on the fact that MOST folks I've met while cruising are good folks who will help others out in a pinch with parts, $ or their own knowledge and labor. Having been in business, there are a different set of rules and morals that govern your behavior, unfortunately.
My advice is contact the banker, tell them you are not doing a runner but you need some time to get back on the black side of the ledger so work with me and you will get your $. Act like a dickhead and so will I. Is that dishonest? Phil

[perchance]

A year more or less for the insurance to settle and say another year to rebuild the fourplex before he sees any income from the property. I don't think the finance company would be willing to wait that long.