Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-07-2013, 22:11   #1
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,426
Fair Value Price

All,

Is it common for the seller broker to request that he be shown the fair market value calculated by my surveyor?

- z
__________________

__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 22:58   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Fair Value Price

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
All,

Is it common for the seller broker to request that he be shown the fair market value calculated by my surveyor?

- z
If you paid for the survey, the results of the survey are yours to do with as you see fit.

So it doesn't really matter if it's common or not - it's still your call.
__________________

__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 22:59   #3
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
TaoJones's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 9,850
Re: Fair Value Price

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
All,

Is it common for the seller broker to request that he be shown the fair market value calculated by my surveyor?

- z
I wouldn't volunteer the information he's requesting until he had provided a full explanation of why he wants the info. You paid for the survey - it's your property. If your broker has a copy and makes it available without your permission, that's an ethical breach.

The selling broker may have a side agreement with the PO that will allow him to gain some advantage if he can present the survey information, though I can't imagine what that would be. He may be trying to chisel your broker out of some percentage of his half of the commission split. He may be trying to prove something to the person in his brokerage who actually holds the broker's license (if it isn't him).

God only knows what his motivation is, but I'd want him to fully explain himself. Also, did he request this through your broker? It's really not within the protocol for the seller's broker to contact you directly.

Perhaps I'm overly suspicious, but that's my nature in these sorts of brokered selling arrangements. I'd keep my cards close to the vest and not entirely trust anyone, including my own broker. YMMV.

TaoJones
__________________
"Your vision becomes clear only when you look into your own heart. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks within, awakens."
Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961)
TaoJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 02:01   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Boat: UNIFLITE 42
Posts: 10
Re: Fair Value Price

What's "fair market value"?

I know of two fair values - one from the seller's perspective and one to the buyer.

And the market value is, well, determined by the market, not calculated by someone.

That makes the term "fair market value" an oxymoron.
__________________
arcwi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 07:24   #5
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Fair Value Price

No.

But common to ask!

Pros and cons to each approach - if the Surveyor says worth 10 cents on the (asking price) dollar then I would say, if I still wanted the boat!

But if it says worth twice as much then no! - likely though it falls somewhere around the asking price. In which case I would not disclose it, unless it is below enough to be useful as a negotiating tool (albeit of course with usual practice being to agree a price, under a contract, before folks know what the boat is worth (lol!) on the market or to them then Surveyor simply saying worth less is not a reason to pull out of the deal, although in practice likely enough other stuff to pull out for any reason - real or not).

Also have to remember that the Surveyors valuation is only his opinion (unless he has also sent cash!), probably not a WAG! - but neither is it something you can take to the bank.

A copy of your survey is also valuable to the Broker and Vendor as a sales tool for future buyers (if it does not say the boat is a POS, but priced as good!), don't give up a copy lightly.
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 07:39   #6
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 1,693
Re: Fair Value Price

Surveyors typically over-value a boat based on the sources of data they use. Insurance companies already know that. so do all brokers. I'm sure you can understand why the seller wants to know what you were told. It's all part of the game and matters little what you share with him as long as you know how to play
__________________
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 09:14   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Fair Value Price

My favorite bit is "replacement value", which is generally ridiculous.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 06:43   #8
Registered User
 
amarinesurveyor's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Jupiter, FL
Posts: 156
Re: Fair Value Price

[QUOTE=arcwi;1278243]What's "fair market value"?

I know of two fair values - one from the seller's perspective and one to the buyer.

And the market value is, well, determined by the market, not calculated by someone.

That makes the term "fair market value" an oxymoron.

The definition of fair market value is
"Fair Market Value is the price that a buyer could reasonably be expected to pay and a seller could reasonably be expected
to accept, if the vessel were for sale on the open market for a reasonable period of time, both buyer and seller being in
possession of all pertinent facts, and neither being under any compulsion to act." It is estimated based on any market information that is available.
Replacement cost is what the boat would cost if built today.
Brian
__________________
Since 1997
amarinesurveyor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 07:08   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,440
Re: Fair Value Price

Quote:
Originally Posted by amarinesurveyor View Post

The definition of fair market value is
"Fair Market Value is the price that a buyer could reasonably be expected to pay and a seller could reasonably be expected
to accept, if the vessel were for sale on the open market for a reasonable period of time, both buyer and seller being in
possession of all pertinent facts, and neither being under any compulsion to act." It is estimated based on any market information that is available.
Replacement cost is what the boat would cost if built today.
Brian
Right. And we're saying they're both generally overstated on surveys.
__________________
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 07:28   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Abaco, Bahamas/ Western NC
Boat: Nothing large at the moment
Posts: 820
Re: Fair Value Price

You paid for it, it is yours to do with as you please. The "fair market" price is ultimately determined by what the boat sells for unless it is some sort of distress sale.
__________________
Tingum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 09:17   #11
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Fair Value Price

Book value has little or no value when you are buying a "one of a kind boat," a boat where the demand is high and the supply is low, or a highly maintained vessel that has had exceptional care. Boat values are averages that compensate for the high and low within value categories. Contrawise, bargain boats are generally just the opposite: a derelict, poorly maintained, and/or abused vessel that is in need of everything. The diamond in the rough is a sad stereotype to those who have fallen victim to a price for a boat that is too good to be true. As in all retail, you generally get what you pay for and nothing else. You can never pay too much for a really fine vessel but if you pay a $100. for junk, you paid too much. Good luck and good sailing.
__________________
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 09:43   #12
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Re: Fair Value Price

As a potential buyer I'd be less concerned with what a surveyor says is the FMV, than what he says needs to be fixed, refitted, etc. and how much that will cost me after I buy the boat.

Whatever the stated FMV, if the price plus the repairs is greater than my budget then I can't afford the boat.
__________________
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 09:53   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,352
Re: Fair Value Price

I've found surveyors FMV to be way off from reality.... not sure why a Broker would want to see it.... unless he doesnt realize that....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 09:58   #14
Registered User
 
MTLandlocked's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Pecatonica, IL (Near Chicago!)
Posts: 121
Re: Fair Value Price

I have very limited experience, as not being a boat owner as of yet, but sounds like maybe the seller wants access to the survey so they don't have to pay for one?
__________________
"A small sailing craft is not only beautiful, it is seductive and full of strange promise and the hint of trouble. - E.B. White
My Blog: http://sailboatexplorer.blogspot.com/
MTLandlocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 14:29   #15
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,426
Re: Fair Value Price

Well, he never did end up requesting this info and we have come to an agreed price.
__________________

__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
price

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.