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Old 30-10-2008, 14:27   #1
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EU Detax Program

There are some charter cats listed on Yachtworld from one specific charter company that are price fairly well. I've contacted them and they sent me a "Protocole" which spells out some of the details of buying these boats. The real worry point is that you don't take ownership of the boat until after the 5 year charter period. This is apparently due to the "Detax" program they have.

If I could buy the boat and then agree to have this company keep chartering it for the period required I'd seriosly look at this program. But, paying many $us without actually getting the boat title seems really risky. Have any of you heard of this before? There is also very little info about this charter cat on-line which makes me more skittish. Input would be appreciated.
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Old 30-10-2008, 14:32   #2
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what?
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Old 30-10-2008, 14:43   #3
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I don't know what I'm allowed to post - I could post the "protocole" if anyone is interested. Also, the name of the charter company is "Sparkling Charter"
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Old 30-10-2008, 14:52   #4
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It would be interesting. If the mods don't like it they'll just delete it.
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Old 30-10-2008, 14:57   #5
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I think these French boats have some sort of subsidy from the French govt when they're first bought. They can be sold after five years. If buying it would make sense to get one close to the expiry of the five years.
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Old 30-10-2008, 14:58   #6
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PROTOCOLE PROJECT




Between: SPARKLING CHARTER, capitalized at 46 000 euros with head office located at Port de Plaisance 97290 Le Marin, Registration Fort de France
B 339 478 539

Represented by Mister Pascal Marcel, Manager


(hereafter: «the Operator»)


And: Mister ………


(hereafter: «the Buyer»)



The followings are beforehand established to the object of this contract:


1. Sparkling Charter is registered in the trade register of Fort de France under number 339 478 539 for pleasure boat activities and operations.

2. Sparkling Charter operates within this framework in Martinique and in Guadeloupe

3. As such, Sparkling Charter manages the sailboat type BAHIA 46 «IMAGINE» within the framework of a detax program whose owner is the Commercial Partnership Company ARKANE

4. SPARKLING CHARTER shall own the entire goods of the Commercial Partnership Company ARKANE at the end of the purchase agreement contract signed on December 11, 2004.

5. Such goods include the above-mentioned sailboat BAHIA 46 «IMAGINE».

6. Mister ......... wishes to buy immediately the above-mentioned sailboat in order to obtain a reduced purchasing price.

7. SPARKLING CHARTER sells the sailboat BAHIA 46 «IMAGINE» object of the agreement to purchase contract with the Commercial Partnership Company ARKANE signed on December 11, 2004 to Mister .........

8. The parties met to define together the conditions and terms of this operation.








This being said, the parties agreed upon the following:


Article 1: Object of the transaction

The object of the transaction is the sailboat BAHIA 46 «IMAGINE» according to the invoice (appendix 1) and the inventory (appendix 2) attached to this contract (hereafter: «the Sailboat»).

Article 2: Transaction amount

The Operator commits itself to sell the sailboat to the Buyer, at the agreed date for the firm and final seller net price of 200 000 Euros (two hundred thousand euros) before taxes.

Article 3: Boat title deeds handing over date
  • At the end of the purchase agreement contract between SPARKLING CHARTER and the Commercial Partnership Company ARKANE, that is to say on March 31, 2010, SPARKLING CHARTER commits itself to give Mister ........., all administrative documents and title deeds concerning the BAHIA 46 «IMAGINE» bought by Mister ..........


Article 4: Transaction payment
  • The Buyer pays this day the amount of 200 000 Euros (two hundred thousand euros), representing the total transaction amount before taxes.

  • The ownership transfer establishing the final purchase of the sailboat shall be effective without other payments on March 31, 2010.


Article 5: Sailboat delivery

1. The delivery of the Sailboat shall take place in Fort de France harbor unless different agreement of the parties.
  • The Sailboat shall be delivered in a state of normal wear and tear considering her commercial charter operations.

Article 6: Buyer's utilization

During this period of 17 months that is to say from November 1, 2008 till March 31, 2010, the Buyer shall dispose of his boat for 4 weeks, either in Martinique or Guadeloupe, in agreement with central reservation..




Article 7: Sailboat insurance

The operator commits itself to insure the sailboat for its market which shall equal at least the amount of the transaction.


Article 8: Loss of the sailboat prior to the purchase by the Buyer

1. In case the sailboat is declared loss, prior to the purchase by the Buyer, the Operator shall make its best efforts to provide the Buyer with a substitution sailboat in order to fulfill the object of this contract.

2. In case the boat is not in a state of normal wear and tear according to the opinion of an independent expert, the operator commits itself to cover the expenses for repairs.


Article 9: Laws and litigation

Any litigationstemming from the validity, interpretation and application of this contract shall lie with the jurisdiction of the Appeal Court of Fort de France.


In Dinard
On September 1, 2008


SIGNATURES



THE BUYER THE OPERATOR
Mr ......... Mr Pascal Marcel, Manager










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Old 30-10-2008, 15:16   #7
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Sounds like a great deal!! You agree to buy the boat now that you'll get in the future not knowing what condition it'll be in. I bet the folks are lining up to get one.
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Old 30-10-2008, 15:45   #8
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I'll sell you a boat that way too! Just give me the money to buy a boat, then I'll use it for 5 years, and then I'll give it to you

I cross my heart that I won't run away with your money, nor will I miss delivery of the boat. I also promise that the boat will be in awesome condition.

I mean what could go wrong in 5 years? Economic collapse? Company going belly up? Me disappearing to an island with your boat? I promise, none of that will happen
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Old 02-11-2008, 13:20   #9
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I have no idea if these are a good deal or not, but the "Detax" reason may be true. France allows a special purchae argeement for boats that avoids paying the VAT tax (about 20%). I believe France is the only EU country that allow this, but it involves the boat being purchased by a leasing company and then leased back to you for 5 years at which point you pay the remainder and get the ownership.

We looked at this option when we purchased a boat in Europe and it appears that it is the only legal way for an EU resident to avoid the 20% VAT. Our cost would have added about 5% to the cost of the boat. Many people buying more expensive boats use this option. People I talked to did not worry about the ownership except it did complicate checking into some countries since you are not the legal owner. But saving 20% is a big deal!

Jim
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Old 24-03-2009, 14:05   #10
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Sparkling Charters

How far did you get with the Bahia 46 with Sparkling ??
The Protocole looked to be very one sided .. The boat sounds good now and looks to be in great shape . There is another year of charter to worry about plus hurricane season !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by rigamarole View Post
There are some charter cats listed on Yachtworld from one specific charter company that are price fairly well. I've contacted them and they sent me a "Protocole" which spells out some of the details of buying these boats. The real worry point is that you don't take ownership of the boat until after the 5 year charter period. This is apparently due to the "Detax" program they have.

If I could buy the boat and then agree to have this company keep chartering it for the period required I'd seriosly look at this program. But, paying many $us without actually getting the boat title seems really risky. Have any of you heard of this before? There is also very little info about this charter cat on-line which makes me more skittish. Input would be appreciated.
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Old 24-03-2009, 16:42   #11
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I went just far enough to get the contract. The boat is the best Bahia on the market for price/year. I hope I don't get in a bidding war with you on this one next spring. If your looking at Bahia's, keep in touch. I'm actively looking for one and appreciate input. David.
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Old 24-03-2009, 16:46   #12
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One other thing I've learned about the de-tax program is that the deal was you could fully depreciate the boat over a 5 year period, so many wealthy Frenchmen purchased the boats for the tax deduction alone. That's why they are so attractivly priced, they really didn't cost the owner anything.
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Old 24-03-2009, 16:52   #13
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David, if you don't get the title, it isn't your boat so you aren't chartering it out. It sounds like a creative finance arrangement, where you are providing capital to them, and your return is the "payment" of goods in five year time. Sort of a lend-lease or lease-back arrangement.

Without a title, you have less security, no collateral. If they wre to go broke you might simply be another bakruptcy claimant. But--creative finance arrangements normally do carry some extra risk in order to avoid (not evade) tax laws and other considerations, so you get more back in the end, if it comes to fruition.

It is the kind of thing you might want to have a lawyer go over, familiar with the possible risks and the court system in the other partner's venue.
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Old 25-03-2009, 08:52   #14
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Hellosailor, I realized all that when I got the contract, which is why I had posted this originally. A year has passed and there is only one year left on the de-tax program so the risk is getting less every month. For the person who is trully interested in this specific boat, waiting till the end and purchasing it would be a good deal based on it's equipment and age. I have two years before I really need to purchase my boat so I'm in no hurry. As I've said in other posts, the buyers market is going to last for a LONG time.
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Old 25-03-2009, 11:58   #15
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A couple of things;
I would be very wary of any company that promises you a vessel in 5 years with " normal wear and tear CONSIDERING COMMERICAIL CHARTER operations. they say an independant expert will decide what is wear and tear.
Who supplies that expert?
Also I would check very very carefully into the EU tax regulation ( a minefield in itself) MY boat is registered in the EU and trust me its not easy to understand the regulations, and not all of the EU countries abide by the same rules. Fer instance I cna take my boat back into the UK as a personal posession, and pay no tax, but none of the other EU countries recognize that. you could easily get stuck.
What tax are they talking about you not having to pay? I cannot beleive that the EU would let you out of 17.5% VAT that easily. If you take the vessel out of France but leave her in the EU other countries will want to see proof of VAT payment, and possibly might not accept the french position
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