Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-07-2018, 05:37   #1
Registered User
 
S/V_Surya's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sasafra river,MD
Boat: gulfstar ketch 41 Surya
Posts: 674
eBay sale went south

Here is an interesting dilemma. I recently sold my dinghy on eBay. due to other commitments I had to leave town shortly after the sale. I sent the buyer a notarized bill of sale and location of the dinghy for pickup. the dinghy was at a small private Marina in Fort Myers. The dingy with motor was left well-secured to the dock and I had a local look after it. Although not gated there is always somebody at the marina the dinghy was located behind an open-air restaurant. Anyway, whenever the buyer went to pick up the boat 2 weeks later it had been stolen. I'm pretty sure it was an inside job but can't prove it. Lot of ex felons in the area.
He is now trying to get his money back through PayPal. I contend that the boat was his and he waited too long to pick it up.
I talked to eBay and they said if he contests it that he will win because he never saw the dingy in person.
He did file a police report.
I say he waited too long to collect the boat he should have got it immediately while I was there. I also say since he paid in full and was given a notarized bill of sale it was his as of that date. I never guaranteed storage or to look after the boat.
I'll try to post the picture later in case somebody in the area of Fort Myers Beach spots it.
Thanks
__________________

S/V_Surya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 05:52   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 89
Re: eBay sale went south

From his perspective, he does not know if the dinghy ever existed since he has never seen it.
__________________

Seaadventurers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 06:05   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 9,437
Re: eBay sale went south

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaadventurers View Post
From his perspective, he does not know if the dinghy ever existed since he has never seen it.
Have to agree. He paid for it, and OP didnt deliver the goods. My interpretation is that the responsiblity is on the OP to deliver purchased goods or return cash. Its not the buyers problem that it was stolen.
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 06:15   #4
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 3,002
Re: eBay sale went south

(heh, I think I know that marina & restaurant)

Regrettably, I would agree that the loss is the responsibility of the seller. Everything the OP posted could be true... yet how does the buyer or Ebay know this? I think the OP could have done a better job of securing the dinghy - eg have the marina store it in a lock-up. Of course hindsight is 20-20.

It's also a cautionary tale for both buyers and sellers: on a big ticket item, be very cautious about how the deal is closed, and who has responsibility and when.
Lake-Effect is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 06:30   #5
Registered User
 
S/V_Surya's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sasafra river,MD
Boat: gulfstar ketch 41 Surya
Posts: 674
Re: eBay sale went south

There is no Marina store. And there was no way to store it any place in Fort Myers Beach already checked.
My question is what is the buyer's responsibility. If he knows it will be a couple weeks before he can get down there isn't it his job to make sure the boat is looked after.
How long is my responsibility 2 weeks 6 months 2 years.
I think my mistake was not putting in the listing the boat must be moved within 48 Hours of sale.
S/V_Surya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 06:41   #6
Registered User
 
travellerw's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Grenada
Boat: Fortuna Island Spirit 40
Posts: 2,212
Re: eBay sale went south

As a seller, your responsibility is to ensure the boat is handed over to the actual buyer. You are also responsible ensure you verify the identity of the buyer on pickup.

This one is pretty clear cut. The buyer will get his money back.
travellerw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 07:10   #7
Registered User
 
S/V_Surya's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sasafra river,MD
Boat: gulfstar ketch 41 Surya
Posts: 674
Re: eBay sale went south

Interesting enough the buyer tried to claim his money back on PayPal buyer guarantee. PayPal ruled in my favor.
S/V_Surya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 07:18   #8
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Boat: Morgan Out Island 41
Posts: 852
Images: 2
Re: eBay sale went south

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V_Surya View Post
There is no Marina store. And there was no way to store it any place in Fort Myers Beach already checked.
My question is what is the buyer's responsibility. If he knows it will be a couple weeks before he can get down there isn't it his job to make sure the boat is looked after.
How long is my responsibility 2 weeks 6 months 2 years.
I think my mistake was not putting in the listing the boat must be moved within 48 Hours of sale.
Really, unless you stated that the item had to be picked up within a certain time frame, The Buyer has not taken delivery of the item and therefore the sale has not been completed. As the Seller (you) cannot complete the sale, the Transaction really should be voided and the buyers funds returned. If you sold your home but had not yet closed on it, and there was a fire, who would be on the hook? The seller would.
pcmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 07:29   #9
Marine Service Provider
 
rourkeh's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Northern Caribbean
Boat: Cheoy Lee, 44 Cutter. Dolce Far Niente
Posts: 472
Re: eBay sale went south

possible the buyer is scamming you
He may have removed the dingy himself and now has the boat, bill of sale and he will get his money back. I would check to see if the dingy was registered with the state, and if the title ( if there is one ) was transferred.
rourkeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 07:38   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
SV Bacchus's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Stuart, FL
Boat: Leopard 42 OV
Posts: 1,120
Re: eBay sale went south

You say he filed a police report. In that report did he list himself as the owner? Is the dinghy now in the state database as stolen?

Not sure any of that proves anything one way or another; I was just thinking he wouldn't want to have it in his possession if it is in the computer as stolen.
__________________
SV Bacchus - spreading libations world wide, via sailboat, to help the "up tight" relax and enjoy life!
SV Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 07:43   #11
Registered User
 
travellerw's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Grenada
Boat: Fortuna Island Spirit 40
Posts: 2,212
Re: eBay sale went south

Quote:
Originally Posted by rourkeh View Post
possible the buyer is scamming you
He may have removed the dingy himself and now has the boat, bill of sale and he will get his money back. I would check to see if the dingy was registered with the state, and if the title ( if there is one ) was transferred.
Who is to say the seller isn't scamming the buyer?

Ya, I left the dinghy tied up to this dock! How do we even know the seller had a dinghy. How do we know the seller ever tied the dinghy up to the spot suggested.

Seller says Paypal ruled in his favor. I'm surprised by that. If I was the buyer, I would certainly get a lawyer.
travellerw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 08:00   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bucharest
Boat: Deerberg Beryll, Hartley 39
Posts: 35
Re: eBay sale went south

ebay is very buyer-oriented. If in doubt (like your case) they will favor the buyer. Good luck anyway!
calin1967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 08:11   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 1,282
Images: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to roland stockham
Re: eBay sale went south

I would think the legal position would depend on whether the buyer and seller made an agreement about handover. If they buyer agreed with the arrangement to leave the dingy tied to the dock for them to pick up then they have accepted responsibility for it even though they have not seen it. If this was a condition imposed by the seller after the deal then the seller has responsibility. Generally there is a 48hr time window on Ebay for deals to be completed but the seller has the responsibility for the goods during delivery. so without some agreement about leaving the dingy at the dock it would probably be seen as 'in delivery' and therefore the sellers responsibility until it was picked up. It is a bit af an unusual arrangement.
roland stockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 08:14   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Southern MD, Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 91
Re: eBay sale went south

Unless there is a specific provision regarding physical receipt of the boat in the contract, the transfer of ownership should be complete upon payment in full, and transfer of a satisfied bill of sale to the buyer.

It is an unusual situation, and looking at it from a buyer's perspective, it seems unfair, but under strict contract law, I believe the analysis above is correct.
Hardhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 08:25   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 20,459
Re: eBay sale went south

Ebay is very buyer oriented any more and you will have to refund. In general, a sale is not complete until possession is taken anyway.

So if you ship something, you are responsible until it arrives and is delivered, even though they paid much earlier. That's the way it's been for a long time in Epurchase.
If you ship something and it's not properly protected it's yours until it's accepted.

If you and he used Paypal, they insist on right of return and will side with the buyer most every time. I've had buyers get cold feet on expensive items before the item even arrived.
In the old days it was whether or not the purchase was FOB destination or FOB shipper.
BTW, Paypaland Ebay are now at about 60 or 90 days for allowing the person to return it!

Too bad, you got ripped off. May have not been anything related to the buyer at all.
__________________

__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sale

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
fridge went south before the boat did Shala Provisioning: Food & Drink 11 02-03-2017 09:31
Another Big eBay Blowout Sale - :) ssullivan Classifieds Archive 27 16-07-2008 11:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.