Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-01-2014, 17:59   #1
Registered User
 
Vancefish's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Butte County California
Boat: Peterson, Sloop, 34'
Posts: 131
Dream boat or Disaster?

I have sailed a lot in smaller boats like International 505, and Hobie cats. Motor boats up to 25-28 feet.

I've always dreamed of sailing the Ocean (only reason I learned to sail at all). I never married, have no children. No real ties to my current life other then comfort level (also known as a comfortable rut).

FAR from wealthy, but also completely free of any debt. I now find myself accepting an $8K insurance settlement for a car accident. Add to that the 10K or so of equity in my home I can easily sell. As well as a lot of smaller stuff I really don't need like two cars??

So, that lead me to start my hunt for a dream boat. I searched hard for a couple of months. Every coastal Craigs. Every sailboat site I could find. Research often destroyed a number of my choices. Cost wiped out a ton right off the bat. A wood hull was to much to maintain. California won't allow live aboard under 33 feet. On and on..

My about to retire friend has decided he is willing to join me and pay for up to $7K if I include him in my sailing adventures in the Caribbean. He's a good mechanic too.

THEN I found a dream machine. Unbelievable! WAY to cheap. Guy sounded real. The boat yard confirms the boat is there. The guy even admits to a few nasty issues on the phone (like a dead, OLD, engine).

The survey was today. Got the full on green light on the boats condition (Pretty much). A long list of little issues such as old lines. Missing head in the front bathroom. Not enough clamps on a hose, interior could use some cleaning and varnish, a few bad portal gaskets. New bottom, needs top side paint... Overall worth more then double the asking price!!

It's a Beneteau First 38 for only $12K.

The surveyor did not look at the Keel bolts. Which have been known to have issues with corroding. I added a picture of the crack I think they call a "smile".

The other thread on this site on THAT issue is here: Keel Bolts.....

Now it's real and I'm scared to death all of a sudden. Guess I need reassurance that this isn't a fiscal mistake. It sounds like being on the hard (as it is already), the keel shouldn't be a hard fix. ;-)

Any advice would be great.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Beneteau Keel.jpg
Views:	465
Size:	163.0 KB
ID:	74561  
__________________

__________________
Vancefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 18:10   #2
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,188
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Check the bilge where the bolts come through.. if shes had a hard grounding there'll be indent evidence round the bolts up front where the keel was forced down and back..
Smile looks more like a grin.. if you get her put new keel bolts on the list..
Others may know better..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 20:16   #3
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Either you've got a bargain or there's more likely a reason it is so far below market, something that was missed. There's a good market for Beneteaus.

AFAIK they do NOT use conventional J-bolts in the keel, but Beneteau uses short nuts and bolts into the cast iron keel, so that you can remove the nuts, one at a time, and replace them when and as needed. You'd need to make sure of what you've got and what it really might or might not need.

One of the Benes, I think one of their 38 foot boats, had a rudder slightly deeper than the keel, making it vulnerable to damage in any kind of grounding, even from a low tide. That's a fast five grand for the rudder "plus plus". So unless your surveyor looked carefully under the boat...

In any case, that boat at that price calls for getting your ass in gear, examining the boat, and finding out if you've got a prize or a horror.

On the ten grand in equity on your house...As a seller, if you pay the standard 6% brokers fee, and there are any other costs involved, there goes the ten grand. What you've got if you're lucky is the auto insurance payout.

Now of course, you'll need that engine. And more than five grand for new standing rigging unless that was replaced within the last ten years. And...you know, little things like that. It is easy to get surprised and in over your head on a first boat.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 20:38   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 2,592
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

OK, I have to ask ... why on earth would the surveyor not look at something as critical as keel bolts ?
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 20:45   #5
Registered User
 
Vancefish's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Butte County California
Boat: Peterson, Sloop, 34'
Posts: 131
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Thanks for the replies.

I've been spending as little as I can for MANY years on everything.

The home is a modular. I live in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood. Whenever an elderly neighbor dies or goes into a home their home is sold and occupied within a month. I estimated low on what I'd get for selling it, just in case.

As for acting quickly? My friend and I can pay right now. Ready to act yesterday. I even asked the surveyor to look at these bolts, but that didn't happen due to a bad bilge float they got running while the survey was happening. (Water came from a bad cockpit/engine bay gasket). The wind generator works to power the bilge pump. The float valve failed he said.

I found a great picture of these keel bolts on another site (sales). I likely shouldn't post them here. However if not submerged they are plain as day to look at under the floorboards. I'm going to request they let me see those before I buy. If they look good? No deformation from an impact? and they don't look rusted out? I think we'll buy her.
__________________
Vancefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 20:46   #6
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 398
Dream boat or Disaster?

5k for a rudder for a 38 foot boat? Maybe a new one installed by a yard. I'm pretty positive if I had the old one to copy I could build a new one from top quality materials for 1k ish tops. The metal stock would be the most expensive part. But that's just me, a craftsman. I always forget and overlook the fact that many people just pay the yard. Sounds like a good deal, I would try to find a few bigger things wrong with it and offer 8 or 9k cash. Drop the keel and fix it nice, slap a new engine in it and start using it. Don't sail in a hurricanes and do the rigging in a year or two. Plenty of good old boats out there with rigging way older than ten years. Buy cheap and fix, but not if you can't do 100% of it yourself. If you can't do this keel job and change your own engine with professional results, buy a 30k boat and save yourself a huge headache. All the nay sayers here are not tradesmen, their the pay the yard crowd. No matter what price the yard gives you , we all know that they will call daily with bad news and the bill will double whatever they told you. It's unavoidable don't be fooled. Having any yard repairs is a sure way blow your budget. But honestly even a 30k boat will eat 20k and you won't even be able to tell where it went. Fear the yard!
__________________
Horror Hotel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 20:55   #7
Registered User
 
Vancefish's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Butte County California
Boat: Peterson, Sloop, 34'
Posts: 131
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Long Keel, Max Prop, New rudder, (shorter then the Keel). New over sized standing rigging 2 years ago :-)
__________________
Vancefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 21:04   #8
Registered User
 
Vancefish's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Butte County California
Boat: Peterson, Sloop, 34'
Posts: 131
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

I'm also with Horror Hotel. I've built small glass boats. Made wood rudders. I'm sure I could do most of that job myself. I'm simply worried about either an impact possibly deforming the hull at the forward Keel bolts, OR a bolt head rusting off and seizing in the hole I think.
__________________
Vancefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 21:13   #9
Registered User
 
Vancefish's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Butte County California
Boat: Peterson, Sloop, 34'
Posts: 131
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

They are Nuts, not Bolts (or so it seems). Like in this thread on a 34 : Rusty Keel Bolts - How bad is it? - SailNet Community
__________________
Vancefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 21:32   #10
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

"OK, I have to ask ... why on earth would the surveyor not look at something as critical as keel bolts ? "
Extremely well-experienced surveyor, been in business 65 years. Now suffering from diminished mental faculties, severe arthritis, and presbyopia. Heart of gold, but just can't get his eyes close enough to the keel bolts to inspect them.

Works for me! <WEG>
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-01-2014, 21:51   #11
Registered User
 
Vancefish's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Butte County California
Boat: Peterson, Sloop, 34'
Posts: 131
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

They are nuts on a few pics I've found. However I also found a thread where they had to replace the studs threaded into the Keel. That owner said the job wasn't to rough. Beneteau even has instructions on their site on how to do it (haven't looked at that yet).

It does bother me the surveyor didn't look at these.
__________________
Vancefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 04:24   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Vancefish.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 04:37   #13
Zai
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Athens
Boat: 2011 Bavaria 36 Cruiser
Posts: 144
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Also check that there isn't any leans on the boat and the boat yard bill has been paid.
__________________
Zai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 07:50   #14
Registered User
 
Vancefish's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Butte County California
Boat: Peterson, Sloop, 34'
Posts: 131
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

I spoke to the boat yard a week ago. They will transfer the rent to me as soon as I buy it, and start charging me. The current owners bill would continue to be owed by him. They confirmed that, told me I could live on the boat where it is on the hard, and their site says they provide electricity included in the rent.

Any suggestions on how to check for liens? I really don't want to spend a ton on some lien search service, but it's worth looking into for sure.

This Keel issue is eating me up though. I'll be calling the owner, and the surveyor in a few min, to express my need to know about the keel issue.
__________________
Vancefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-01-2014, 08:10   #15
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,514
Images: 14
Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Speak to the surveyor, that is what you are paying him for.

Pete
__________________

__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:20.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.