Dream boat or Disaster?

[Vancefish]

I have sailed a lot in smaller boats like International 505, and Hobie cats. Motor boats up to 25-28 feet.

I've always dreamed of sailing the Ocean (only reason I learned to sail at all). I never married, have no children. No real ties to my current life other then comfort level (also known as a comfortable rut).

FAR from wealthy, but also completely free of any debt. I now find myself accepting an $8K insurance settlement for a car accident. Add to that the 10K or so of equity in my home I can easily sell. As well as a lot of smaller stuff I really don't need like two cars??

So, that lead me to start my hunt for a dream boat. I searched hard for a couple of months. Every coastal Craigs. Every sailboat site I could find. Research often destroyed a number of my choices. Cost wiped out a ton right off the bat. A wood hull was to much to maintain. California won't allow live aboard under 33 feet. On and on..

My about to retire friend has decided he is willing to join me and pay for up to $7K if I include him in my sailing adventures in the Caribbean. He's a good mechanic too.

THEN I found a dream machine. Unbelievable! WAY to cheap. Guy sounded real. The boat yard confirms the boat is there. The guy even admits to a few nasty issues on the phone (like a dead, OLD, engine).

The survey was today. Got the full on green light on the boats condition (Pretty much). A long list of little issues such as old lines. Missing head in the front bathroom. Not enough clamps on a hose, interior could use some cleaning and varnish, a few bad portal gaskets. New bottom, needs top side paint... Overall worth more then double the asking price!!

It's a Beneteau First 38 for only $12K.

The surveyor did not look at the Keel bolts. Which have been known to have issues with corroding. I added a picture of the crack I think they call a "smile".

The other thread on this site on THAT issue is here: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...olts-8119.html

Now it's real and I'm scared to death all of a sudden. Guess I need reassurance that this isn't a fiscal mistake. It sounds like being on the hard (as it is already), the keel shouldn't be a hard fix. ;-)

Any advice would be great.

[boatman61]

Check the bilge where the bolts come through.. if shes had a hard grounding there'll be indent evidence round the bolts up front where the keel was forced down and back..
Smile looks more like a grin.. if you get her put new keel bolts on the list..
Others may know better..

[hellosailor]

Either you've got a bargain or there's more likely a reason it is so far below market, something that was missed. There's a good market for Beneteaus.

AFAIK they do NOT use conventional J-bolts in the keel, but Beneteau uses short nuts and bolts into the cast iron keel, so that you can remove the nuts, one at a time, and replace them when and as needed. You'd need to make sure of what you've got and what it really might or might not need.

One of the Benes, I think one of their 38 foot boats, had a rudder slightly deeper than the keel, making it vulnerable to damage in any kind of grounding, even from a low tide. That's a fast five grand for the rudder "plus plus". So unless your surveyor looked carefully under the boat...

In any case, that boat at that price calls for getting your ass in gear, examining the boat, and finding out if you've got a prize or a horror.

On the ten grand in equity on your house...As a seller, if you pay the standard 6% brokers fee, and there are any other costs involved, there goes the ten grand. What you've got if you're lucky is the auto insurance payout.

Now of course, you'll need that engine. And more than five grand for new standing rigging unless that was replaced within the last ten years. And...you know, little things like that. It is easy to get surprised and in over your head on a first boat.

[boatpoker]

OK, I have to ask ... why on earth would the surveyor not look at something as critical as keel bolts ?

[Vancefish]

Thanks for the replies.

I've been spending as little as I can for MANY years on everything.

The home is a modular. I live in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood. Whenever an elderly neighbor dies or goes into a home their home is sold and occupied within a month. I estimated low on what I'd get for selling it, just in case.

As for acting quickly? My friend and I can pay right now. Ready to act yesterday. I even asked the surveyor to look at these bolts, but that didn't happen due to a bad bilge float they got running while the survey was happening. (Water came from a bad cockpit/engine bay gasket). The wind generator works to power the bilge pump. The float valve failed he said.

I found a great picture of these keel bolts on another site (sales). I likely shouldn't post them here. However if not submerged they are plain as day to look at under the floorboards. I'm going to request they let me see those before I buy. If they look good? No deformation from an impact? and they don't look rusted out? I think we'll buy her.

[Horror Hotel]

5k for a rudder for a 38 foot boat? Maybe a new one installed by a yard. I'm pretty positive if I had the old one to copy I could build a new one from top quality materials for 1k ish tops. The metal stock would be the most expensive part. But that's just me, a craftsman. I always forget and overlook the fact that many people just pay the yard. Sounds like a good deal, I would try to find a few bigger things wrong with it and offer 8 or 9k cash. Drop the keel and fix it nice, slap a new engine in it and start using it. Don't sail in a hurricanes and do the rigging in a year or two. Plenty of good old boats out there with rigging way older than ten years. Buy cheap and fix, but not if you can't do 100% of it yourself. If you can't do this keel job and change your own engine with professional results, buy a 30k boat and save yourself a huge headache. All the nay sayers here are not tradesmen, their the pay the yard crowd. No matter what price the yard gives you , we all know that they will call daily with bad news and the bill will double whatever they told you. It's unavoidable don't be fooled. Having any yard repairs is a sure way blow your budget. But honestly even a 30k boat will eat 20k and you won't even be able to tell where it went. Fear the yard!

[Vancefish]

Long Keel, Max Prop, New rudder, (shorter then the Keel). New over sized standing rigging 2 years ago :-)

[Vancefish]

I'm also with Horror Hotel. I've built small glass boats. Made wood rudders. I'm sure I could do most of that job myself. I'm simply worried about either an impact possibly deforming the hull at the forward Keel bolts, OR a bolt head rusting off and seizing in the hole I think.

[Vancefish]

They are Nuts, not Bolts (or so it seems). Like in this thread on a 34 : Rusty Keel Bolts - How bad is it? - SailNet Community

[hellosailor]

"OK, I have to ask ... why on earth would the surveyor not look at something as critical as keel bolts ? "
Extremely well-experienced surveyor, been in business 65 years. Now suffering from diminished mental faculties, severe arthritis, and presbyopia. Heart of gold, but just can't get his eyes close enough to the keel bolts to inspect them.

Works for me! <WEG>

[Vancefish]

They are nuts on a few pics I've found. However I also found a thread where they had to replace the studs threaded into the Keel. That owner said the job wasn't to rough. Beneteau even has instructions on their site on how to do it (haven't looked at that yet).

It does bother me the surveyor didn't look at these.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Vancefish.

[Zai]

Also check that there isn't any leans on the boat and the boat yard bill has been paid.

[Vancefish]

I spoke to the boat yard a week ago. They will transfer the rent to me as soon as I buy it, and start charging me. The current owners bill would continue to be owed by him. They confirmed that, told me I could live on the boat where it is on the hard, and their site says they provide electricity included in the rent.

Any suggestions on how to check for liens? I really don't want to spend a ton on some lien search service, but it's worth looking into for sure.

This Keel issue is eating me up though. I'll be calling the owner, and the surveyor in a few min, to express my need to know about the keel issue.

[Pete7]

Speak to the surveyor, that is what you are paying him for.

Pete