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Old 27-01-2014, 12:22   #61
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

First, I wouldn't do a partnership with anyone. Most of the time it gets fuzzy and leads to grief. Second, I would never buy a boat unseen with my own eyes...especially when the Surveyor does not report on questionable issues, such as the keel fasteners. Maybe save your money and try later.
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Old 28-01-2014, 09:08   #62
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
First, I wouldn't do a partnership with anyone. Most of the time it gets fuzzy and leads to grief. Second, I would never buy a boat unseen with my own eyes...especially when the Surveyor does not report on questionable issues, such as the keel fasteners. Maybe save your money and try later.
Ding.... Ding.... Two bulls-eyes.....
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Old 28-01-2014, 12:13   #63
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Vance,
There are a lot of boats in FL under 20k. Searching Sailboatlistings.com came up with 12 pages of FL boats under 20k. Some of these should be close to you. Have a look at them & crawl around. See what work these boats need. You may find one that needs much less than your original find.

Horror had a good suggestion with Green Cove Springs. There may even be some bargains to be had up there (Jacksonville).
Good luck,
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Old 28-01-2014, 12:50   #64
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

The short of it is that 40'-ish for under 20k are rare. Most boats are overpriced anyway. The normal owner is convinced that they can get their money back. Spending 30k five years ago means nothing. It's like the guy selling the beater civic, it's not worth more because you put a $300 alternator in yesterday, it's scrap without it.
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Old 28-01-2014, 12:55   #65
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

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The short of it is that 40'-ish for under 20k are rare. Most boats are overpriced anyway. The normal owner is convinced that they can get their money back. Spending 30k five years ago means nothing. It's like the guy selling the beater civic, it's not worth more because you put a $300 alternator in yesterday, it's scrap without it.
True. And it's REALLY not worth more because you put in a $300 alternator five years ago.

That bimini and those new batteries that you put in 5 years ago aren't new any more. You remember when you just painted the bottom, three years ago?

I've learned a lot recently about how people view boat maintenance.
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Old 29-01-2014, 07:06   #66
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

I told the owner no on that boat two days ago. Yesterday he called and asked if he could have a copy of the survey. I honestly kicked around the idea of making a low ball offer right then. However I decided to go ahead and give him a copy of the survey, AND offer him $7000.

He has been telling me he had an offer for $11K, but was "holding out" for us (which I doubted). So we'll see, but I'd pay the $7K today. The $5K savings would allow me to move to the boat and work on it full time for at least a month or two (I think I'd be done in under one month working full time.

As for the partnership. It's a little odd. My best friend is about to retire. He had his eyes removed when he was under a year old, so obviously MORE blind then a bat. However he is a great Mechanic (might come in handy). The plan was the boat would be ALL mine. The investment and/or time he spent near the boat would be minimal (He lives and owns a couple coffee shops in Boulder, Colorado). He simply always wanted to sail, has extra money (lucky bast...). So riding along on a few trips would likely work out fine. It's not as though he's going to show up at the boat demanding he take the boat out alone! lol

I've already started a search for another boat. Mostly aiming for 34 feet or more. California won't allow live aboards under 33 feet, and one Marina in the Clear lake, Texas area is 34 feet minimum. So, that is mainly why I aimed larger then a 30.

Well unless the owner of the Beneteau take $7K this thread is old news.

Thanks for all the advice!!
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Old 29-01-2014, 07:23   #67
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Vancefish, a couple of things before you go...

You paid $700 for a survey then gave a copy away for free. It is very common in these situations that the survey is sold to the disappointed owner for half price.

Check in with National Liquidators once in a while, deals can occasionally be had on repo and damaged boats. They describe any damage honestly and seem to be reputable.

Suggest you take a look at Marine Survey 101, it shows tips on what to look for in a prospective purchase before you spend money on a surveyor
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Old 29-01-2014, 13:14   #68
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Well first off I paid $460 for a survey. Not $700!

Second I DID sit and think about trying to get $$ out of the seller for a few hours before doing what I did.

The seller is unemployed. Has been quite a while actually. As I said earlier I believe? He owes the yard $2000 in back fees. His wife/girlfriend? got a job in Iowa. So he was given the choice the boat and Florida (which he can't afford) or move to Iowa in a few more days. (As a bonus he gets to keep his Wife/Girlfriend if he goes).

So,... Knowing full well the guy is broke, moving a thousand miles away in a few days. He's loosing his ass on the boat yard right now. AND HAS NO BUYERS!!!

This leaves me with a moral and fiscal choice. Demand $230 (your 1/2 figure) for the survey and look like a dick,.. OR give him the survey (absolutely USELESS to me anyway). Then kindly offer him a really low ball number (Also avoiding being a Karmic A hole).

With maybe a little nice, mixed with a little guilt (HIS leaving out some info on the boat) and a healthy dose of desperate. MAYBE he'll think to himself in his lowest moment,.. "You know, I should sell it to that nice guy that did me right with the survey. Just get out from under it while I still can!".

If not WHO CARES? The survey was useless to me anyway. Why be a D1cK??
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Old 29-01-2014, 13:34   #69
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Vance, being a dck has nothing to do with it. Business is business, personal is personal, and that's all the same as far as moral or ethical matters go. If you want to establish a charity or pay the guy's rent and help him out, that's all well and good. Commendable.

But it has nothing to do with business, and selling a boat is a business transaction.

A survey is traditionally sold, not given away, because you paid good money to it and the next potential buyer may now get it for free--effectively reducing the sale costs of the boat and enriching the seller and the next buyer, at your cost. You want to give them each a hundred dollars? Fine, give 'em cash. Splitting the cost of the survey is just a way to say the boat wasn't what you expected, or the price wasn't what you expected, and asking the next guy to pick up part of that money you wasted.

There's a reason why the seller is having money troubles and troubles selling the boat. He's been doing something "wrong", and that's the way this cruel world works. EVERY BOAT WILL SELL WITHIN 30 DAYS if and only if the seller does two things correctly:

1-Market the boat. You have to let the world know it is for sale.
2-Market the boat at a realistic price.

In the used car business they say "there's a tuchus for every seat" meaning, it doesn't matter what you are trying to sell, SOMEONE is going to love it, if you get it and them together at the right price. Same same for the used boat market.

The guy is trying to sell the boat personally? Maybe that's because he really has mixed feelings and wants to keep it. If the boat was on Yachtworld, accurately described and at a market price, it would be gone in 30 days. Yes, the hot listings there and elsewhere do sell that quickly.

Can't sell a boat? Well, gee. If he'd described it accurately, allowed for a good survey, let more folks know it was for sale...ANY Beneteau 38, ANY model they make, can sell in 30 days. If he can't get ten grand for it--there's something wrong, and you're not being a dck if you don't make that your problem.

Oh, and Mother Teresa's Ghost asked me to tell you in no uncertain terms, that unless you help that poor man sell that boat THIS MONTH, you're being a...disappointment to her.

Sleep on it. Or, buy that man a listing. (His girlfriend could have done that too, unless he really didn't want to sell the boat.)
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Old 29-01-2014, 13:56   #70
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

Vancefish,

For what it's worth (perhaps not much), I think both you and Hello Sailor are right, in that above all, you have to live with yourself and your decisions. And yet, if you are meticulous in your business dealings, there is good in that, as well. IMO, taking care of yourself can include tough business practice, but need not do so. I think I look for the deal that most benefits each participant.

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Old 29-01-2014, 14:13   #71
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

How interesting it is to see how other people view the same situation. So, I SHOULD try to force a broke guy to scrape up $230, JUST because that is how the world works??

I think that is how some people feel the world works for them. (sorry dude! lol)

My life is pretty laid back. I don't have a credit card (never have). I don't have a Mortgage (Again,.. never have). I don't have a car payment (AGAIN,,, NEVER HAVE had one)! I work a less then middle class job 8-5 m-f. Yet with no debt, I have way more money, then people I know who make far more then me. (and far less stress too!)

When I collect a pay check there is NO budget going past,.."Hmm I wonder what I should buy that would MOST improve my life?" If there isn't anything? I put it away for later. (It's a rare thing in the US, called sa-vings).

So I (as in myself) paid a guy to figure out if buying this boat was a worthy thing to do with my $19,000.00 (plus a little bit from my friend) that IS NOT DEBT. It turned out to NOT be such a great deal. SO, that means I GOT MY MONEY'S WORTH. I saved MANY thousands of dollars by getting a survey (soon to be useless paper garbage anyway! Both the cash and the survey. lol).

You're correct about the marketing too! He is NOT marketing it (believe me, I'd find it if he was). So, again. I am most likely his ONLY buyer, with an offer of $7000 right now. If he IS desperate and he sells me the boat for $7K? I saved $5K by "giving" him that Survey.

You see it's all in your perspective. My game is to be is only choice, and someone he likes overall (The gamble I chose to take). Your method is to screw that guy and move on. I maybe, could still buy the boat with my method, and maybe at an even lower price. Your method is simply walk with $230. Chump change barely worth the stress and effort (and he might not even pay it).

I put my $460 in the machine and pulled the handle. I chose to "bet it all". Now that the wheels are turning? No reason to lecture me on the risks.
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Old 29-01-2014, 14:18   #72
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

I agree with you Ann. I liked your first post to this thread too!

and Thank you for your input.
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Old 31-01-2014, 15:33   #73
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

I am interested in seeing how this turns out. My bet is he'll take the $7000 and you'll get the boat. But it may be more than you bargained for. But if you do your own work and have the time, you could come off well. I lived in the keys on a boat for 10 years and met a number of modern day pirates. Just sayin, be careful. And be sure to do a title check or you could be fixing someone else‘s boat.

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Old 02-02-2014, 07:05   #74
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

I got a call on the Beneteau yesterday from the surveyor. I missed it, he didn't leave a message and when I tried to call him back he didn't answer.

I doubt it means anything though.

So, unless something happens to mess it up? I'll likely be flying to San Fransisco (figures) this week to inspect a 1978 Peterson 34' sloop,.. with my own eyes!
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:10   #75
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Re: Dream boat or Disaster?

My two cents: I once really wanted this boat, have been on them and would certainly buy the right one . http://books.google.com/books?id=jUY...ed=0CCkQ6AEwAA that being said, an older thirty eight foot will run easily 20,000 to 40,000 to get off shore safely just for basics. Harbor living, yes, cheaper. Maybe. So as some have said here, plan to pay double triple or more than you plan.

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