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Old 19-11-2013, 17:31   #31
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Good points. You're right, there is a big educational value in owning and learning your own boat, education I wouldn't and couldn't get with a charter or rental. And I can use mine whenever I please and whenever I can, freedom I wouldn't have with a charter/rental. And there's some value in a sense of pride and accomplishment in successful maintenance work - the head finally works! ahhhh.
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Old 19-11-2013, 18:01   #32
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

Using the boat payment(the principal portion, the interest is an expense) as an expense is only valid if you want a pure cash cost, not an economic cost of owning the boat. The principal payment is the cost of acquisition of an asset, not an expense. That asset has value, some portion of which will be recovered at sale. The "cost" is the net present value of that difference over the time of ownership, a rather complicated calculation. The same is true for any item added to the boat that will have the same expected life as your ownership period and will be sold with the boat

In any investment there is always an opportunity cost/benefit based on alternative uses for the funds. Then, you also have to try and quantify the benefit value of your time spent on the boat, assuming you do indeed enjoy your time on the boat. In our case, that last one will always tip the scales in favor of the boat!
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Old 19-11-2013, 18:57   #33
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

Well from the other end of the spectrum, it cost me an average of about $12 a day, living on my boat for the year, for boat related costs. That includes boat maintenance (including that pesky engine rebuild), Slip cost, (when I'm in a slip), fuel and insurance. That's about $4500 for the year. This year was a High maintenance year for me too. Spent more this year then the last 3 combined..

I guess I have a "Simple" boat....
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Old 19-11-2013, 22:28   #34
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
If your goal is to go "real" cruising, then owning your own boat for a longish period before departure is important... ...Many of the failed cruises that we have witnessed over the years have had their roots in the lack of such preps.
Ah, but much of the money we've seen people spend has been in the refurbishment of boats that never leave on that "real" cruise.

So what is the smarter way to play it? To purchase an intermediate boat to learn these lessons on in a less expensive way, or to purchase the large bluewater cruiser, where the lessons may be expensive enough to crush the original dream before it even begins?
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Old 19-11-2013, 22:59   #35
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

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So what is the smarter way to play it? To purchase an intermediate boat to learn these lessons on in a less expensive way, or to purchase the large bluewater cruiser, where the lessons may be expensive enough to crush the original dream before it even begins?
It seems to come down to whether you know what you're looking for.
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Old 19-11-2013, 23:28   #36
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

Sailorboy, your costs seem a little on the high end, we spent only a little over half as much $$... But, lived on our boat full time for over five months.

Our friends in the Med who live on their new Lagoon 450, live a wonderful lifestyle cruising 365 on $18,000-$20,000 per year including in water slip rentals for six months that include heat via electric.

Maybe, you need to head over to the Med.
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Old 20-11-2013, 04:11   #37
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

I cut all my costs in half: purchase price, maintenance, berthing etc.

I bought the boat with a buddy. It is an older 31ft cruising mono in the $25-35k range. I could not have afforded it otherwise. And we each get about 60 to 70 days on the boat per season here in New England. Ten to twenty percent of those days we are on the boat together.

"My" total cost including purchase price spread over 5 years is $7k per year. That is $100/day. After that it goes down by 3k per year.

Without my buddy you can double all those costs.

I highly recommend it!
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Old 20-11-2013, 04:54   #38
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Sailorboy, your costs seem a little on the high end, we spent only a little over half as much $$... But, lived on our boat full time for over five months.

Our friends in the Med who live on their new Lagoon 450, live a wonderful lifestyle cruising 365 on $18,000-$20,000 per year including in water slip rentals for six months that include heat via electric.

Maybe, you need to head over to the Med.
I don't feel my costs are out of control. After-all I stay on a mooring instead of in a slip and I do all my own boat work.

The $26k includes $17,500 in boat payments, including extra payments I have been doing to pay down the boat faster.

It looks that this year will be lowest I've have for operation, maintenance, upgrades in 3 years.
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Old 20-11-2013, 05:08   #39
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

Boat costs are very dependent on the the individual.

WE paid cash for our boat - so no interest expense, but there certainly is a depreciation expense. We own our own pier so we don't have to pay for a slip. The boat is only 5 years old, so there are few forced maintenance items. WE are outfitting her for a circumnavigation so we are spending money like we owned the bank (sigh).

Hypalon dinghy - 3 grand
Life raft - 3 grand
New chart plotter - 2 .5 grand
ICOM SSB + Pactor - 3 grand
Radar - 2.5 grand
Watermaker 2.5 grand
Upgrade of charging system - 3 grand
Ugrade of anchors/chain - 2 grand

And I haven't even started on all the little stuff. But adding the above items up it becomes 22 grand. However we plan on spending 5 years circumnavigating so it all last the full 5 years then it is only a little over 4 grand per year.

A boat is a bottomless hole in the water, surrounded by fiberglass, into which you pour money
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Old 20-11-2013, 06:07   #40
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Re: Dollars and Sense 2013

I think time is the biggest divisor of cost. I paid off the cost of my old boat more than twenty years ago. Live aboard cruising cuts costs too,- no house, no cars, little cause to buy stuff.
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Old 20-11-2013, 08:40   #41
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

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Sailorboy, your costs seem a little on the high end, we spent only a little over half as much $$... But, lived on our boat full time for over five months.

Our friends in the Med who live on their new Lagoon 450, live a wonderful lifestyle cruising 365 on $18,000-$20,000 per year including in water slip rentals for six months that include heat via electric.

Maybe, you need to head over to the Med.
Are you saying you got your boat for free? Because I'm thinking that a 53 foot Oyster usually costs some cash, and things break or require upkeep occasionally, just like on every other boat.
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Old 20-11-2013, 08:46   #42
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Re: Dollars and Sense 2013

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I think time is the biggest divisor of cost. I paid off the cost of my old boat more than twenty years ago. Live aboard cruising cuts costs too,- no house, no cars, little cause to buy stuff.
True, but it also makes people forget what a boat actually cost. There is a difference between present and future value of things.

So if you bought a boat 10 years ago, and sell it for the same price you paid, was it free? No. Mostly because while you owned that boat, the price of everything else doubled without you realizing it. You also likely paid slip fees on occasion, maintenance, repair, and new equipment costs.

You're correct about saving on other areas of your life, though. Living on land is full of paying for utilities and taxes. But someone has to pay to educate the future generation and provide for social services, right?
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Old 20-11-2013, 09:39   #43
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Re: dollars and sense 2013

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Chartering or sailing club boats is good fun and can be a sailing fix, but learning the ins and outs of boat ownership, maintenance and trouble shooting is a crucial part of preparation for cruising full time. Many of the failed cruises that we have witnessed over the years have had their roots in the lack of such preps.
This is most certainly true! Ever since I switched from my motorcycle to a car, I've stopped doing any of my own maintenance/repair work besides some electrical work - it's just too hard to find space in the city to do a lift, get under it, etc. I try to learn more about boat maintenance by pitching in with friends' boat work, but there's surely nothing like owning.

As an aside that's probably relevant to boats and this discussion - I bought a slightly used Mercedes years ago and when I sold it, I realised depreciation on the car had made the cost of ownership $4,000/year. Now I drive a Honda Insight from 2000 which is relatively cheap and simple to repair and only costs about $800/year to own. I would imagine depreciation on new boats is probably the largest cost of ownership, and has to be included in any cost discussion. If I ever buy my own boat, it will surely be decades old and I'll have ample opportunities to learn how to repair it!
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Old 20-11-2013, 16:24   #44
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Re: Dollars and Sense 2013

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True, but it also makes people forget what a boat actually cost. There is a difference between present and future value of things.

So if you bought a boat 10 years ago, and sell it for the same price you paid, was it free? No.................
Sure, I agree, but as years go by and you continue not to sell the boat and you continue living aboard and cruising; then, the cost of the boat continues to dimenish. So, I bought my boat 28 years ago and I'll likely keep it for another ten years. So, if I sell it for $10 after 38 years, was it worth it? .... absolutely!
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Old 20-11-2013, 16:43   #45
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Re: Dollars and Sense 2013

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It's difficult to decipher all the data out there, because you have some posters like goboatingnow who report paying $5500/year for a 40 foot boat, while others are reporting what seems like more realistic costs. When I start looking at the real costs of cruising the way I'd do it, slip/marina fees, insurance, equipment replacement, upkeep and maintenance costs add up to real money.
I did not include any payments, payments adjusted for depreciation or some future realised value, are cash flow, rather then costs. running the boat , food, marinas, maintenance are genuine costs of ownership.

I suppose you could extrapolate a future realisable value, convert it to net present value and deduct that from the payments the balance being a genuine cost.

dave
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