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Old 18-02-2009, 08:28   #1
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Documented Vessel Title?

Can a USCG documented also be titled by a state?

Or does the title pretty much become null and void, once a boat is documented...useless, except to feed a paper shredder?

If the latter is the case, what happens if the boat is ever sold, and the new owner just wants to title and not document it? Just curious, not selling anytime soon...not even really done buying yet.

Right now I'm stuck between the bank, who tells me there is no such thing as a title on a documented vessel, which is kind of how I understand it.
And NJDMV who tells me I need a title to register, even if it is documented.
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Old 18-02-2009, 08:55   #2
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The state of Texas passed a law that documented vessels were required to purchase an annual sticker if they were in Texas waters. The state wanted their pound of flesh from untitled boats. I needed to show that I had paid state taxes on my boat when I purchased it in order to get my sticker. NJ may only want to insure that you have paid the state tax on your boat at the time of sale. I have no state title and only documentation to show ownership.
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Old 18-02-2009, 09:25   #3
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Very possibly true, but wouldn't a notarized sales contract and the document be sufficient for that?
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Old 18-02-2009, 09:47   #4
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Not being familiar with NJ tax laws, I would think that proof that all applicable taxes had been paid to the state would need to be presented. We all hate to pay any tax that we can avoid and some will arrange to purchase vessels in states that require no tax on boats. Your documentation proves your ownership. The state only wants their pound of flesh. If the state can't tax you they will find a way to impose a fee. With tax revenues falling off the state will impose more and more fees to make up the difference. Your bank has recognized the documentation as your title and they will be listed as lien holders on your documentation. They are happy, your happy. I hope you can make the state happy. Do you have to display a state sticker on your boat to be in compliance in NJ waters?
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Old 18-02-2009, 09:49   #5
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Siren was a documented vessal when I purchased, for personal reasons, I decided to register in Florida. I went to the DMV and deleted documentation and registered in Florida, I had to pay sales tax and now have a Florida title. On the flip side you surrender title to the state upon documentation as you now have a FEDERAL title by your Documentation. It does not relieve state tax nor can you escape buying a tax sticker for your state. It only changes venue of who has jurisdiction over you.
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Old 18-02-2009, 09:58   #6
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Grunzster...

I believe you have two separate issues.

The Title, is what you receive when you purchase the vessel that says it's yours and or the banks (lien holder ). In order to register and title the vessel for the first time in N.J. you need to prove that you own it. ( bill of sale ) That's what they call title and registration. Yes, they will want sales tax (7%) if you haven't paid it elsewhere.

A documented vessel is between you and the Coast Guard. Documenting your vessel with the Coast Guard does not ( in NJ ) relieve you of having to register your vessel annually with the DMV. The only thing to my knowledge that having the vessel Documented with the coast guard relieves you from in NJ is not having to Place the registration numbers on the each side of the bow of your vessel.

You still have to register the vessel every year and display the annual registration sticker.
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Old 18-02-2009, 10:08   #7
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Originally Posted by captintommy View Post
Not being familiar with NJ tax laws, I would think that proof that all applicable taxes had been paid to the state would need to be presented. We all hate to pay any tax that we can avoid and some will arrange to purchase vessels in states that require no tax on boats. Your documentation proves your ownership. The state only wants their pound of flesh. If the state can't tax you they will find a way to impose a fee. With tax revenues falling off the state will impose more and more fees to make up the difference. Your bank has recognized the documentation as your title and they will be listed as lien holders on your documentation. They are happy, your happy. I hope you can make the state happy. Do you have to display a state sticker on your boat to be in compliance in NJ waters?
Yeah, but taxes are usually paid at the time of registration. So it's not proof of taxes they need, but proof of what I paid to allow them to charge me those taxes.

I believe you just need to have 1 sticker in NJ.
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Old 18-02-2009, 10:13   #8
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Siren was a documented vessal when I purchased, for personal reasons, I decided to register in Florida. I went to the DMV and deleted documentation and registered in Florida, I had to pay sales tax and now have a Florida title. On the flip side you surrender title to the state upon documentation as you now have a FEDERAL title by your Documentation. It does not relieve state tax nor can you escape buying a tax sticker for your state. It only changes venue of who has jurisdiction over you.
Funny you should mention that. The boat was originally titled in FL. The previous owners sent the title to FL to try to transfer it, as they though would be required for the sale.

Turns out, you cant title in FL unless it's register in FL. They also didn't send the title back, so I don't even have it, regardless of it's validity.

Sounds to me like I need to call DMV and get a second opinion from someone who has a clue.
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Old 18-02-2009, 10:14   #9
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2 stickers....one on each side of the bow...or, I put mine on each side of the mast..
I believe the term is " in plain sight"

You need a Bill of Sale...
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Old 18-02-2009, 10:20   #10
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Grunzster...

I believe you have two separate issues.

The Title, is what you receive when you purchase the vessel that says it's yours and or the banks (lien holder ). In order to register the vessel for the first time in N.J. you need to prove that you own it. That's what they call title and registration. Yes, they will want sales tax (7%) if you haven't paid it elsewhere.

A documented vessel is between you and the Coast Guard. Documenting your vessel with the Coast Guard does not ( in NJ ) relieve you of having to register your vessel annually with the DMV. The only thing to my knowledge that having the vessel Documented with the coast guard relieves you from in NJ is not having to Place the registration numbers on the each side of the bow of your vessel.

You still have to register the vessel every year and display the annual registration sticker.
Yes, I know I still have to register and pay the taxes.

The real issue is what's required to register?

So, I'm going to assume the person I talked to doesn't know what they were talking about and I can provide the document in lieu of the title to prove ownership, at time of registration, and bill of sale for tax purposes.
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Old 18-02-2009, 10:22   #11
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2 stickers....one on each side of the bow...or, I put mine on each side of the mast..
I believe the term is " in plain sight"

You need a Bill of Sale...
Thanks.

Did that change recently?

According to the DMV website, "All livery boats, documented boats and commercial boats receive only one decal"
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Old 18-02-2009, 10:38   #12
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yeah, I saw that...they send me two every year...

I put them in plain sight...on each side of the mast...beats being stopped..
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Old 18-02-2009, 12:35   #13
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Thanks for the help everyone.

Looks like it was just another typical case of someone at a government agency not having a clue. All they seem to understand over there is, does it have a motor, and what's the length of the boat, which of course they asked, and then the first thing they said was I need the title...even after specifically saying it was a "documented" vessel.
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Old 04-04-2009, 15:01   #14
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Smile Gentlemen

I purchased my boat in new Jersey 1992. In order to get the boat documented it had to be mortgaged. I had no mortgage, so I went to the bank and got one. I then filed the papers for the documentation and paid off the mortgage. I had it for about a week. I did this in order to have the boat registered with the USCG, an aid if stolen, and to avoid putting numbers on the boat. NJ at the time did not require an annual sticker. I moved to NY in 1998 and the boat came with me. NY does required annual sticker which I have to pay for and display. I do not need to display the numbers. Sales tax was paid to NJ at time of purchase, thus none was due to NY. No title was ever issued. Documentation is your proof of ownership. I currently have the boat for sale. What I was researching was what needs to be done in order to transfer ownership. I would think that a simple bill of sale and cancellation of the vessels documentation is sufficient. The new owner would then take the boat to his location, get it registered, pay the sales tax and put on the numbers.
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Old 04-04-2009, 15:16   #15
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That's strange! From what I understand it's the complete opposite of that.

You need to document in order to get the mortgage.
As long as you own the boat, outright you should be able to document.

I don't think you need to worry about canceling either. The new owner may want to document, in which case they would just fill out the forms for a transfer.
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