Do you pay for true LOA?

[phoenix-marie]

Yes, LOD should be the actual length of the boat's hull, and LOA I think of as including built-in parts of boats like bowsprits, but not anchors. Clearly not all sources agree with these definitions, but they make sense to me. I guess there ought to be a third term to describe the room taken in a slip, which would include all hardware, dinghies, anchors, anything hanging off the boat, and maybe we should call that LOE - length of everything!

[svmariane]

On the VHF when arriving at a new marina:

Me: We're probably going to need a 50 ft or 15 metre slip.
Dock master: Use dock XXX. We'll check it out and help you move if needed.
Me: Great. Coming in...

Is this really a topic to worry about?

[David Mathis]

You stopped short of identifying the real problem.
A few years ago, my 32' boat was tied to the same dock finger as a 36' boat. It was noticed that both were within a couple of inches of being the same length. Why the difference? My pulpit and swim platform were bolted on but those on the 36' boat were molded in rather than bolted. The boats were the same size but I bought and paid for a 32' boat and the other owner paid for a 36' even though they were the same size.
Look at some of the new boats with a long pointed bow. The 5-10' are unusable but you pay for it. Notice the really wide swim platforms? That's part of the overall lengt if it's part of the hull.
So, when you dock at a marina with your boat that should be listed as a 38, the added molded in pulpit and swim platform make it a 43 to 45. You're paying the marina $2 to $5 a foot to let a pulpit hang over the water.

[surf_km55]

Originally Posted by David Mathis

.....You're paying the marina $2 to $5 a foot to let a pulpit hang over the water.

But you're forgetting that long pulpits are super cool & worth every penny.

[DumnMad]

Ours is 14.6 LOA. I'm planning to install davits but don't want to exceed 15m LOA.

Planning to make length from extremity of davits to bow without anchor millimeters less than 15m. With anchor and dinghy in place would be well over 15m.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by phoenix-marie

Yes, LOD should be the actual length of the boat's hull, and LOA I think of as including built-in parts of boats like bowsprits, but not anchors. Clearly not all sources agree with these definitions, but they make sense to me. I guess there ought to be a third term to describe the room taken in a slip, which would include all hardware, dinghies, anchors, anything hanging off the boat, and maybe we should call that LOE - length of everything!

Agree as to the LOE standard, one should place a vessel into a slip that is adequate to fully contain the entire length of the vessel so as avoid any part overhanging over the dock or extending into the fairway. The assigned slip length should exceed the LOE of the vessel.

I greatly prefer marinas which are properly designed and properly managed so as to require the boats to not extend beyond the length of the finger pier, or piling, so that is a boat drifts when transiting the fairway it can come to rest on the end of the finger piers, or pilings, and not come to rest up onto the fairway end of a boat, i.e., the dinghy or davits, or the bowsprit. I also really like a marina where the width of the fairway is twice the length of the slips adjoining that specific fairway so that there is provided for plenty of room for boats to maneuver into and out of their slips, and to pass an oncoming vessel in the fairway.

Paying a little extra for the proper protection and convenience is well worth it. Perhaps 10 to 25% additional then LWL.

Sometimes marinas try to crowd extra piers into their limited acreage which involves making for comparatively skinny fairways and all to often inevitably such limited maneuvering room results in boats bashing into others, hazardous and damaging.

And all too often vessels have parts extending out over the dock or extending into a fairway, thereby making the fairway, anything but a true fairway and the dock an obstacle course.
Definition of fairway. 1a : a navigable part of a river, bay, or harbor. b : an open path or space.

For marinas that use Med mooring and don't have finger piers to tie along those of course have boat ends sticking into the fairway and such boat ends define the edge of the fairway. Most all of us have seen or experienced the consequences of such exposed ends of boats becoming the bumper parts. Many a bow rail and bow sprit or davit being bent.

[thereefgeek]

Ahhhhh, you bet your butt we pay for every inch in my marina. Granted, we pay less per foot than most everywhere else in California, but we still pay...

The title of your thread is a bit deceptive, because my boat which is a Tayana 37 is specified as 36'-8" LOA (length overall), which is actually pretty much LOD (length on deck).

The true number we pay for in slip fees is 42' (Lmax) because we have a big 'ol honking' bowsprit hanging off the snout. Add into that footage a self-steering wind vane which we plan on installing (we're considering Cape Horn) hanging off the arse, and now we're talking 44' plus or minus for a boat that is supposedly 37' LOD. Never been a big fan of davits on a double-ender like ours, so we dodged a bullet there.

Another point to consider when slipping up a boat is how deep she draws vs. how long she is over all. Our marina will put you in a slip based on your overall length (we have 30', 40', and 50' slips here). However, if you're between 30-40' and you draw 7', that may dictate that you be put in a 40'-50' slip due to the dredging and draft clearances. New marina policy effective Jan '19 says that if you're 20' long (for example) parked in a 50' slip, you are going to pay the per/foot rate of a 50 footer so that your big 'ol 7' long fin keel doesn't scrape the mud at low tide.

[ClubClaudia]

Honesty is the best policy in my book! Here in Greece, we have to present our registration papers when checking into a marina or town quay so they charge based on the actual LOA.

[nhschneider]

I sat for five years on the Port Committee at the yacht club to which I belong and it was a common topic of discussion. We made it a policy that all boats being assigned a berth were measured (we bought a Leica laser ‘tape measure’ - point the beam on one spot, mark it, point the beam on another spot and the unit tells you the exact distance between the two points). Where we had the biggest issue was the beam that boat owners claimed - they always insisted that their boats were ‘skinnier’ than what they measured.

At our club, a boat can be assigned to a slip that is 3’ shorter or 5’ longer than the boat itself. The slip fees are based on whichever is longest - the boat’s length is determined by its shadow.

I had proposed that we switch the fee structure to be based on the square footage of the boat - length x beam - but no one else supported the idea.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by nhschneider

I sat for five years on the Port Committee at the yacht club to which I belong and it was a common topic of discussion. We made it a policy that all boats being assigned a berth were measured (we bought a Leica laser ‘tape measure’ - point the beam on one spot, mark it, point the beam on another spot and the unit tells you the exact distance between the two points). Where we had the biggest issue was the beam that boat owners claimed - they always insisted that their boats were ‘skinnier’ than what they measured.

At our club, a boat can be assigned to a slip that is 3’ shorter or 5’ longer than the boat itself. The slip fees are based on whichever is longest - the boat’s length is determined by its shadow.

I had proposed that we switch the fee structure to be based on the square footage of the boat - length x beam - but no one else supported the idea.

Fair winds and calm seas.

So how did you deal with boats which were much wider than typical half-boat / mono-hulls, e.g., catamarans and trimarans? Their beam can be more than twice the problem when it comes to adequacy of space planning and or even as to fairway obstruction when situated at the T end of pier. Squared pegs!

I welcome marina docks set up as a diagonal if the fairway is BOTH short and narrow, such that one backs in or back out and does not need to attempt a right angle in a limited swing distance of the width of a fairway. If the fairway is long then such configuration becomes problematic to vessels that don't back well. And note that the hypotenuse of a triangle is longer than its straight edges so such arrangement can accommodate a somewhat longer vessel than piers set at a normal angle. Reference image below.

I dislike having slips assigned that are shorter than the boat itself as that means there is inherently an overhang of the vessel into the fairway which becomes a bash point, or worse over the dock. Doing such makes the marina becomes kind of like diagonal parking of a extended length vehicle such that its end sticks out in the traffic lane or parking lot lane. By way of example, think of a Montana ranch truck with extended length bed, and full four door cab, dually wheeled rear axle [wide beam] pickup truck squeezed into an ordinary California economy car sized parking spot. Been there done that, back end sticking out say fully four feet into the right lane, causing chaos and traffic jam on a busy downtown road. Opted to relocate instead of getting a ticket for obstructing traffic. Never drove such a vehicle again in a California metropolitan area. A dually wheeled truck effectively requires two narrow parking spots as to widths.

I prefer slips to be longer than the vessel so that the vessel can be comparatively safely tucked in behind the finger pier and / or the piling(s) such that the fixed infrastructure components becomes the probable collision point or the come to rest point on points of a wayward transiting boat in the fairway. Although I have seen boats misnavigate a fairway and bash into the aft end boats tucked well inside a slip between two finger piers because the skipper did not cause their boat to drift [or worse power] into the end of the finger pier; so not cool to purposefully aim for a boat instead of a dock or piling. One time I recall watching an incoming boat's engine quit and there wasn't much the skipper could do to mitigate the collision as the boats at the end of the fairway were med moored, he did manage to drive his boat into the wedge formed between two med moored boats so the collision was minimized to just harsh beam rubbings and severe sideways jostlings of the chain of med moored vessels, and not a direct bow to aft T bone bashing onto just one unlucky boat.

[chowdan]

In Seattle, we pay LOA. I dont have a big overhang from bowsprit and my Atlantic Tower arch has maybe a 0.5" overhang or less(if at all).

My tower is bare and does not have the dinghy davits yet(adds up to 24"). That being said, I've told my marina that my paperwork shows 41.5, yet in the future I'll be extended further. They stuck me in a 42ft slip and said we'll re-evaluate when i get it setup if it extends too far out.

Knowing the management, I wont be moved partially because they like me, but also because they are lazy and dont want to have to change paperwork.

Foreign ports I'll tell them my LOE(everything) and my documented length. Let them choose. No sense in saving a few dollars that way. There are much bigger ways to save money than on length fees.

[Sailorbob8599]

I have a boating friend who would never admit to lying, but he's been known to say: "I'm a bit of a bull-shi**er myself . . . but do go on with your story"

[Mirage35]

Originally Posted by svmariane

On the VHF when arriving at a new marina:

Me: We're probably going to need a 50 ft or 15 metre slip.
Dock master: Use dock XXX. We'll check it out and help you move if needed.
Me: Great. Coming in...

Is this really a topic to worry about?

Is it worth worrying about? In my initial post I think I said that it wasn't, but it's apparently of interest ...


But now I'm intrigued by the folks who say just use the license / registration documentation. Our documentation says 11 meters, so call it 36 feet; that is probably a good approximation of the hull design length, although 35 would probably be closer. But by my measure the true LOA is 38 or maybe 39.


Anyway, I rest with my original position: I try to provide good information to get good service. In our home marina we're on a 30 foot finger dock, so we hang out a long way, but the marina judges that the fairway is wide enough that it doesn't cause a problem. (We just warn guests not to trust the gate in the lifelines, because it leads to open water .)


In any case, thanks for the replies; as always, I've learned a few things.