Do you pay for true LOA?

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by chuckr

In the Med they use something called meters - hum --- we are 40' so we say 40' or 12m as that is the cut off point by cost. some of the smarter ones say no 40' is 12.1m so you pay more.

Try to tell those that you're actually 39'8", that might throw them off?

[denverd0n]

Their marina, their rules. They get to decide how to measure your boat.


Here in the Tampa area, most of the marinas seem to charge by the total length of the boat, including anything sticking out in front or in back. There are some marinas, however, that charge based on the slip that you are in; they won't let you put a 50' boat in a 30' slip, but they are usually okay with a 33' or 34' boat in a 30' slip.


I would start by telling them the model of the boat, "my boat's a Pearson 35" (or whatever), then see what they say. If they ask for the total length, stem to stern, be honest with them. If you don't like the way they measure your boat, or charge for their dockage, then take your boat and your money elsewhere.


It's pretty simple.

[pcmm]

The marina we used to call home when I was younger used to manually measure all new boats coming into the marina and measured from aft most appendage to forward most appendage. To the inch! But then again this marina also made you submit a written proposal for ANY work you did on your boat (internal or external) Lets just say that the owner was making many friends of the patrons!

[Mike OReilly]

How common is it to have a marina measure your boat length? I’ve never encountered such a place, although my marina experience is limited to the Canadian Great Lakes, St. Lawrence and Newfoundland.

The marinas I’ve used (which are not that many, I admit) have always accepted what I told them; that we are a 37-foot boat. In reality our hull LOA is 36’ 9”, but we do have a boomkin which protrudes aft, and when carrying our windvane we may be closer to 40’. I don’t know b/c I’ve never measured, and nor has anyone else.

I’ve never had any marina even question us. I guess the few marinas I’ve used are less anal than other places?

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

The marina where I keep my boat uses 'finger docks' which will accommodate boats of various lengths. I believe we all pay the same rate. If that is so, why would they care how long your boat is? I can see charging for length if one is tied to a 'visitors' wharf.

Is this on a lake? I've honestly never seen or even heard of a marina that charges the same rate for all boats, the exception being a couple of lakes I've seen that have all the same size slips for one rate, and a really short max LOA like 25 feet.
Or are you saying that it has various slip sizes, and they charge for the slip size? I've seen quite a few that do that, usually with a "stick-out" limit, typically three feet down to zero.

[SaltyMetals]

When i check in to a marina in Europe the very first thing they want to see is the Registration Certificate. They keep hold of it until you leave (and pay) if it is just a matter of a few days. If it is a month or more then they will photocopy it and give back the original but of course for these sort of contracts you pay upfront.

I changed the Reg of my boat from SSR to a Part 1 Registry with the UK authorities. To get this registration it was necessary to have what is called a "Tonnage Survey" which generally measures the dimensions of the hull. It gets a bit complicated so ask a surveyor for the full calculations. Anyway the Length on my Registration Certificate says 12.84m while my boat is sold as 43ft (13.1m). All the marinas and HM's seem perfectly happy with the original Reg Cert so i get considered as 12.82m. It gets better. There is usually a mooring charge for 12m and a higher one for 13m and they do not count any decimal points so i end up being charged for 12m. Having said that i have come across some HM's in Croatia (I wish there were more) who take pity on the sailors being asked to pay so much nowadays so when i said 12.84m he said "did i hear 11m? I will charge you for 11m!"
Andrew

[drivn2ironman]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

I’m with you.

We have a Formosa 41 that measures 50’ from davits to end of bowsprit.

In the northeast US I tell the Marinas I have a Formosa 41 with a bowsprit and dinghy davits that extend the length beyond 41’. Most marinas tell me they will charge for 41’.

I Key West there are no breaks. I tell them the same thing and they charge for all 50’.

But I wouldn’t approach any marina without telling them I’m a 41 with additional bowsprit and davits. To me it wouldn’t be honest.

Most Marina's make their own rules -
Here, we pay for the actual boat length but they look at the overall length (bowsprit, davits, etc...) for the physical slip you are going in. We are only allowed to go 3 feet past the physical slip. Just a safety thing so that the channel between dock is actually safe for vessel to travel through.

[Cruiser2B]

Here in Virginia I pay 40ft for a Westsail 32 that is 40ft overall....but I'm in a 45ft slip...so I guess I'm catching a bit of a break

[cortezsailor]

Here’s another perspective .
I am a sailor but also operate a transient marina . My docks are linear so when I take reservations I base my available space on what I am told by my guests . Well it didn’t take me long to realize that close to 90% of boaters either don’t know or lie when it comes to the question of what is your entire length including overhangs , sprits , windvanes etc . . My record for fibbing is 16 ft .
At the end of the day I would often run out of room even with a built in cushion on each boat . So I measure now and overtime have built a reliable database of regular boats .
It’s not even the fibbing that is the biggest issue it’s the reaction I get from about 10% of boaters who will argue and fight if I tell them they are actually 7 ft longer then they claim . I can also claim that the bigger the power boater the bigger the fight when it comes to length.
Just another perspective

[John_Trusty]

In summary, perhaps this comes down to competition and custom. If there are marinas in the area with dozens of empty docks (our case in Michigan US), then marinas accept what the boater says for fear of losing the booking. If boats are waiting for slips (some of the US West coast and European stories), then boaters accept that the harbormaster comes out with a tape and charges for the 2 mm extra for the through-hull off the back!

[Talbot]

In southern UK, finger berths are of different lengths and the longer fingers also have a wider gap to the next finger, and across to the next pontoon/set of fingers, so giving the wrong length is foolish.

If you underestimate, don't be surprised to see a tape measure being used!

[Woodland Hills]

I am amazed how many are comfortable lying in order to save a few bucks! Reading this thread and the similar one at Trawler Forum, the amount of rationalizing and tap dancing to justify theft by fraud is a real eye opener. My default position has always been that my fellow boaters were decent honorable people,, but it sure seems that a segment is not.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

I am amazed how many are comfortable lying in order to save a few bucks! The amount of rationalizing and tap dancing to justify theft by fraud is a real eye opener. My default position has always been that my fellow boaters were decent honorable people,, but it sure seems that a segment is not.

Actually, it’s a well known and well studied trait of human nature. We all tend to lie. Most of us only lie a little bit, but there are about 20% (based on various experiments) who lie a lot more.

[schrater]

Yep, LOA: tip of anchor in pulpit to back of dinghy on davits. Honesty doesn't really come into it, because they come down and measure within the first day or two anyway.

[Argyle38]

Originally Posted by cortezsailor

Here’s another perspective .
I am a sailor but also operate a transient marina . My docks are linear so when I take reservations I base my available space on what I am told by my guests . Well it didn’t take me long to realize that close to 90% of boaters either don’t know or lie when it comes to the question of what is your entire length including overhangs , sprits , windvanes etc . . My record for fibbing is 16 ft .
At the end of the day I would often run out of room even with a built in cushion on each boat . So I measure now and overtime have built a reliable database of regular boats .
It’s not even the fibbing that is the biggest issue it’s the reaction I get from about 10% of boaters who will argue and fight if I tell them they are actually 7 ft longer then they claim . I can also claim that the bigger the power boater the bigger the fight when it comes to length.
Just another perspective

I don't think anyone would have an issue with paying by the foot for LOA for an alongside tie up. That makes perfect sense, you are renting a certain amount of space so you pay for that space.

Where it doesn't make sense to me is to be charged by the foot (or meter) for a slip. It just doesn't make any sense. If I put my 40' boat in a 50' slip, it's not like they can put a 10' boat in behind me to fill the capacity. A 50' slip should cost the same whether there's a 40' boat or a 20' boat there. Both boats are using the exact same resource.

I once asked a friend who runs a marina about this. His initial reply was that marinas will always try to make as much money as they can. My reply was that they were actually leaving money on the table since a 36' boat in a 40' slip was paying less than a 39' boat in an identical slip next to him. Both boats should just be paying for the 40' slip. His reply then was that it was just the way it has always been.

I think asking the length of ones vessel for for a slip fee creates a bit of animosity betwen marina and boater that is a bit unecessary. Of course the boat has to fit in to the slip without excessive overhang on the dock or in to the fairway, but as long as it fits, I think it would be a smoother transaction if you paid by the slip rather than by the foot. As I said before, for an alongside tie, you have to charge by the foot and there will certainly be shennagians. Calling your boat 16' short is hilarious. Unless the boat as 100' long.

To answer the OP's question. For a slip, it depends on how the question is asked. If they just ask for LOA, I say 38'. That is what is listed on my build certificate and documentation, so that is the legal length. LOA technically does not include a bowsprit (or boomkin). Those are spars. If they specifically request "including bowsprits, davits, etc." then I say 41'. It's actually 41'9" according to the brochure, but I've never actually measured.

If it's an alongside tie up, I tell them 42' right off. If my davits are out, I'll splash the dink and fold them in so the length is accurate.

Seriously though, stuff like this is why I like to anchor.