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Old 08-12-2010, 09:23   #46
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Originally Posted by NCountry View Post
Actually, my income is not dependent on my loss ratio AND my agency does not recieve any type of bonus's. What you refer to is called a contingency bonus and it was a reward to agents that had a low loss ratio. Those have been done away with in most of the insurance business a number of years ago.
NCountry, perhaps the independent brokers I am familiar with deal with companies that do make contingency bonuses a part of the compensation package.

I could name those companies, but in the interest of objectivity, perhaps I should leave that one alone.

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If you don't have any claims you qualify for companies with lower rates. Some companies even offer to pay a claim and not raise your rates if you can go for a period of time without any claims.
I thought this was pretty well known, especially when relating to automotive claims.

On the other hand, it is also a practice of insurance companies to not only raise rates for someone in a higher risk category, but also to drop them.

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We do make an effort to educate our customers about the types of things we can help them with but we NEVER try to pressure a client into anything. Believe it or not this puts us into somewhat of a liability situation.
Yes, cross-selling is a double edged sword. I agree with you and know that there have been court cases such as those you alluded to; I also know, and I think you have concurred, that a significant number of independent brokers make cross-selling a priority to increase bottom lines.

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Sorry, I'll get off my soap box again I just felt compelled to stand up for some of us slime balls out here that really try hard to do the right thing even when it has a tendency to make our lives a little bit harder than we would like.
Merry Christmas to all and God Bless!
Ncountry, I have no doubt that your are running your agency in the manner you describe.

As a consumer, I would not know that before I came in to see you about insurance, and I would suspect that vast number of clients shopping for insurance would not recognize the difference between captive and independent agencies, never mind the different approaches to running one.

Thanks for your comments and the best of the season to you also.
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:25   #47
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The OP is in a quandry and its not uncommon as many boats out sailing are not insured becuase its difficult to get. ( trans ocean and circumnavigation with just two people being a classic case).

Theres no easy answer.

In practice if you have the money then if you looses the boat all the finance compnay want is there money and if youhave it then the issue will not proceed from there.

I still would seek public liability insurance, even one thats only activated when you come in sight of land.

Dave
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:45   #48
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Consider another possible situation. (This happened to me this summer). I'm sitting an anchorage for several days. spun around for 3 days to all compass points with no issues. On the 4th day we went into town for dinner at a local restaurant. I came back and my boat was gone. The anchor fouled with the chain (Fortress (Danforth style), no longer on the boat) and the anchor dragged.
A local tow company showed up on site and towed me to a mooring ball. There was absolutely zero damage to any property or person. The towing company handed me a salvage bill for 25% of the value of the boat excercising their salvage rights.

What if the idiot next to you is uninsured and drifts into your boat causing damage? The same could be said for any number of derelict boats abandoned in an anchorage. Sure you can pay the lean off out of pocket PLUS the cost to repair damages or cost to replace the vessel if you also don't have insurance. You would essentially need to pay for two boats, the one you lost and the one that replaces it. Unless you don't want to cruise anymore.


What if your found at fault for causing 100's of thousands of dollars of damage to someone else? Can you afford to repair/replace your boat AND someone elses? Or will you simply rely on their insurance to cover an uninsured 3rd party. That is less than polite. You need to be able to maintain financial liability for the lean holders property AND others around you.

Just a couple thoughts.

BTW- my marine insurance has a variety of 'navigable limits', which specifies WHERE you are covered to boat. You could modify the coverage region as you move. Some areas might cost more than others (frequently based on season), but you're correct if you are incur damage outside of the navigable limits of your policy it will be difficult to collect.

I'd discuss your options with your insurance agent. Please don't self insure unless you truly can be accountable for the financial liability to both the lean holder and others around you.
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Old 08-12-2010, 18:10   #49
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I'd discuss your options with your insurance agent. Please don't self insure unless you truly can be accountable for the financial liability to both the lean holder and others around you.
I dont agree, in all walks of life not all activities are insured and boating can be one of them. circumstances can exist that make this happen, would you restrict your cruising ground based on an insurance company. Many circumnavigators will tell you they dont have coverage or perhaps only partial coverage.

If an uninsured boat drifts down on you , then youll have to sue, and establish negligence etc. then there might be no money. Thats why you have your own insurance. ( and i have mine).



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Old 08-12-2010, 19:21   #50
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IMOP insurance is a 100% complete waste of money.....till you need it.
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Old 08-12-2010, 19:27   #51
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My boat is a 1986 model year, is in great shape (professionally maintained throughout its life) and surveys without a hiccup. I own it outright and as such have only liability insurance..... BECAUSE I could not find a company other than BoatUS or Lloyds who would even talk to me and the cheapest of those two was $4K a year! FOR A 28 FOOT BOAT!
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Old 08-12-2010, 20:18   #52
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People say "until you need it." The thing is, you may never need it.

Also, if you save all of those monthly payments and put them in a bond, you will have quite a chunk of change saved up eventually.
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Old 08-12-2010, 21:18   #53
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My boat is a 1986 model year, is in great shape (professionally maintained throughout its life) and surveys without a hiccup. I own it outright and as such have only liability insurance..... BECAUSE I could not find a company other than BoatUS or Lloyds who would even talk to me and the cheapest of those two was $4K a year! FOR A 28 FOOT BOAT!
i'm finding about the same, which seems crazy to me - there must be tons of cruising boats out there of our vintage with two person crews... i guess i'm just surprised that insurance companies seem to act like it's such an unusual circumstance.

makes me wonder how many boats out cruising really carry hull insurance.

anyhow, i'm glad i'm not alone.
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Old 08-12-2010, 22:15   #54
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so you have to get liability ins to cruise in Mexico , is that right,???
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Old 08-12-2010, 22:26   #55
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I cruised for 9 years, starting in 2000, and found that most long term cruisers didn't carry any boat insurance, nor do they have any medical insurance.

Most of them didn't have celluar phones, and very few of them carried watches. Laptop PC's started showing up around 2005. Most people were still using Internet cafe's and WiFi was considered a new toy. Nobody wasted their time surfing the internet.

I sometimes observe a very large gap in what is discussed on this forum and the expectations of the newer cruisers and what I experienced meeting cruisiers from all over the world as I went back and forth in the Eastern Caribbean.

I try not to make judgements, but boy, there sure is a difference!
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Old 08-12-2010, 22:31   #56
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so you have to get liability ins to cruise in Mexico , is that right,???
To be legal, you must purchase Mexician liability insurance. This will prevent your boat being impounded, by the Mexician Government, if any claims need to be settled.

It's pretty cheap.
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Old 08-12-2010, 23:16   #57
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Now we're into diatribes against insurance companies. Usually by irresponsible sailors who have boats that are worthless. . . .
. . . . Anyone that sails without liability insurance is selfish and irresponsible.
Does anyone here work for an insurance company? As an actuary preferrably. The reality is that your insurance company calculates the probability that you will have a claim within a certain time frame and then charges you an amount that will cover your claim, their costs, and result in profit for them. Should they miscalculate and you have a claim that they did not predict, or just because you have a claim, your insurance rate is increased to compensate. They are a business remember. The wise thing to do, to the extent that the law will allow, is find out what the insurance companies would charge you, and then put that money in your own account. If you ever have a claim, the money is there. If you don't, the money is still there - not the case when you give it to the insurance company. As for liability, first you pay the deductable - why?- then they are only going to pay up to the amount of insurance you bought. You are still liable for all costs above that amount not your insurance company.

It is possible, likely even, that you postpone making those payments to yourself and find you are not well covered. Insurance is for these folks. But the insurance company doesn't want me to tell you that because they won't make money. There goes my job

With that said, I am huge on keeping my word. So I would pay off the loan, and I might use an unsecured line of credit to do so depending on where and how I needed my cash. But I am not paying insurance companies if I can avoid it simply because I understand/teach the math they use.

PS. Hope this doesn't fuel a diatribe - just wanted to shed a little light in case someone wasn't aware.
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:50   #58
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Sorry but maths was never my strength but no matter how I work it the premium that I pay has never, I repeat never come close to the amount I was being covered for. Also if I pay the policy today covering me as of 12 midnight & next week I run into your very expensive yacht I am covered but if I do not have insurance? Oh I get it I just let you know that in about five years time I will have saved up and will then pay for the damage, I can see why they want to keep it a secret.
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Old 09-12-2010, 04:35   #59
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To me this issue is more controversial than anchors and guns. I always found it interesting that someone has to carry the burden of fear for someone else. For the most part boats are toys not essential to anyones right to life. Forcing others under the threat of lawsuit to cover Little Lord Fauntleroys or Richie Richs toy boat so they ca go out and play just rubs me a little in the wrong way.



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Old 09-12-2010, 05:05   #60
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My boat is a 1986 model year, is in great shape (professionally maintained throughout its life) and surveys without a hiccup. I own it outright and as such have only liability insurance..... BECAUSE I could not find a company other than BoatUS or Lloyds who would even talk to me and the cheapest of those two was $4K a year! FOR A 28 FOOT BOAT!
I agree! Hull coverage in Florida went way high and many insurers dropped their marine market after the hurricanes of 2004. Full hull coverage would have cost me 8.5% of my 1973 boat's market price each year! By not purchasing hull coverage since 2004 I have saved one half the value of my boat; however, I do keep a hefty liability policy.
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