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Old 07-12-2010, 16:43   #31
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John A - Your experience is the norm while there are exceptions you very rarely hear about the good stuff just the bad. My last boat carried worldwide cruising coverage ( very reasonably priced) through a German based company with offices worlwide. I sold it prior to renewal date and received a refund for the unused portion which was around two months. Lets just say that the amount put a grin on my face and guaranteed my future custom. While some of you are bashing the companies up rightly or wrongly what about the vast number of falsified claims they have to deal with? You don't think that has a negative effect on the way they treat claims?
Again I do not understand what the original poster is trying to prove. He has the money to pay the boat out. So he has the money to pay the insurance, what is the point of this thread?
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Old 07-12-2010, 16:44   #32
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look into the Jackline policy, they offer a wide range and will cover 2 person crew. They policy for liability so you can dock at most marinas which require a min policy amount to be there.
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Old 07-12-2010, 16:46   #33
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Again I do not understand what the original poster is trying to prove. He has the money to pay the boat out. So he has the money to pay the insurance, what is the point of this thread?
i'm not trying to avoid cost. i've been told that we're uninsurable due to the fact that there's only two of us, the boat's too old and we don't have enough experience. if it was just a matter of cost, i'd pay it.
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Old 07-12-2010, 17:18   #34
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i'm not trying to avoid cost. i've been told that we're uninsurable due to the fact that there's only two of us, the boat's too old and we don't have enough experience. if it was just a matter of cost, i'd pay it.
But to echo Mimsy's spot-on posts.

You have entered into an agreement with someone else (a lending company/bank) in order to buy your vessel. They require you to carry valid hull insurance in order to protect the financial interests of not only the lender, but the lender's investors. IOW, they want to reduce their risk.

Regardless of your "moral" intent to re-pay the loan, if you move the vessel out of the navigation area where it is currently insured, you are violating both the letter and intent of your original loan agreement. You are in effect, trying to re-negotiate the terms of the loan unilaterally and without consequence to you.

Fair Winds,
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Old 07-12-2010, 17:36   #35
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Originally Posted by kb79 View Post
i'm not trying to avoid cost. i've been told that we're uninsurable due to the fact that there's only two of us, the boat's too old and we don't have enough experience. if it was just a matter of cost, i'd pay it.
Thank you for the clarification. This places a different view to the whole thread.

The current insurance compainy is uncomfortable covering you and your bank demands insurance, right?
I see two options: 1) pay the boat off and go with just liaballity or 2) find another insurance carrier that will cover you with a larger than normal deductable.

Insurance companies are rather experienced at identifing people trying to sneak under the radar. I'd further caution about a discussion on an open forum of ways to rip insurance companies off.
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Old 07-12-2010, 17:40   #36
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I'd further caution about a discussion on an open forum of ways to rip insurance companies off.
Heh!
........
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Old 07-12-2010, 17:59   #37
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Now we're into diatribes against insurance companies. Usually by irresponsible sailors who have boats that are worthless.

In over 25 years of sailing I've always been insured. Now on two boats. In that time I've had two claims. I was hit by lightning. The insurance company paid all except the deductible without any haggling or delays. In the second case I was hit while anchored in the Bahamas. My insurance company took care of everything. They recovered the cost from the other boat's insurance company. Anyone that sails without liability insurance is selfish and irresponsible.

avb3 seems to think being hit by an uninsured boat seldom happens. It only has to happen once and if you're the injured party you will change your mind about insurance very quickly.
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Old 07-12-2010, 18:09   #38
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Anyone that sails without liability insurance is selfish and irresponsible.
Or very careful and responsible for their own actions.

Something that seems to be lacking in to many people.
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Old 07-12-2010, 18:21   #39
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Or very careful and responsible for their own actions.

Something that seems to be lacking in to many people.
No matter how careful and responsible you are s**t happens. Usually in anchorages when the careful and responsible owner is off the boat.
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Old 07-12-2010, 18:44   #40
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i'm not trying to avoid cost. i've been told that we're uninsurable due to the fact that there's only two of us, the boat's too old and we don't have enough experience. if it was just a matter of cost, i'd pay it.
As they say there is normally more to the story than first disclosed.
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Old 07-12-2010, 19:05   #41
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Whether you believe insurance is a scam or not, you'd be a fool to think of it as a good investment.

It is a loss, by definition. If insuring a boat was not a losing proposition for the owner, then insurance companies would go tits up.

Sure there are benefits, but ultimately, paying a monthly or annual insurance premium is giving money away.
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Old 07-12-2010, 19:24   #42
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No matter how careful and responsible you are s**t happens. Usually in anchorages when the careful and responsible owner is off the boat.
So true!! Please read post #39 within this thread.

I'm the uninsured boat! The owner of the insured boat, which struck me, was upset that I had saved his boat!! He told another cruisier, who was involved, that he wished that we had all let his boat be bashed on the rocks and sank, so that he could get on with his life!!

The next day after this happened, I went to Customs and asked that they not let this boat check out. When I told the owner, he was upset. That's when I got his insurance companies address. And he asked me to inflate the claim to cover his deductable!

There are way to many irresponsible people who expect insurance companies and all levels of government to protect them from themselves.
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Old 08-12-2010, 07:27   #43
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That document must, in Spain, france, Greece, include a translated certificate of coverage. Customs are not interested at all. Marinas are.
Very few marinas ask for the translation anymore, whilst sailing in France, Spain, Italy and Greece recently all the marina wanted was the english policy document, which in fact they dont even look at , all they do is take a photot copy and put it into their files.( I know this becuase inadvertantly we had been given out a previous year insurance document).

Remember all this is is third party liability insurance, They dont care about your boat. Its their marinas they care about.

Third party is usually cheap though it can be hard to find.

dave
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Old 08-12-2010, 07:30   #44
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Sure there are benefits, but ultimately, paying a monthly or annual insurance premium is giving money away.
Right up until that one time when you need it.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:15   #45
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Actually, my income is not dependent on my loss ratio AND my agency does not recieve any type of bonus's. What you refer to is called a contingency bonus and it was a reward to agents that had a low loss ratio. Those have been done away with in most of the insurance business a number of years ago.
As an independent agent we do in fact try to keep out loss ratios low. (Loss ratio is the amount paid in claims versus the amount collected in premiums.) We work to educate our clients about things they can do to help reduce the number of claims. This actually works to the clients benefit because as mentioned before we have a number of companies we represent. Clients with no losses are rewarded with lower rates because it enables us to shop around then place them with companies that have lower rates.
Most people don't realize that all companies have guidelines with regards to what type of customer they'll accept. If you don't have any claims you qualify for companies with lower rates. Some companies even offer to pay a claim and not raise your rates if you can go for a period of time without any claims. As I stated before, these are just some of the advantages of dealing with an independent agent. Our large list of companies allows us to shop around for better rates as you qualify and we spend time educating our clients about ways they can limit losses in order to qualify for better rates.
Now I'm want to address your last comment. Yes, just like Captive or Company Agents, there are Independent agents that really work their client list to presuade them to buy additional coverages. My agency does not do that and we never will. We do make an effort to educate our customers about the types of things we can help them with but we NEVER try to pressure a client into anything. Believe it or not this puts us into somewhat of a liability situation. In the last 5 to 10 years agencies have had to pay out in court cases because they didn't pressure a client to buy a certain type of insurance. In one case a new client came into an agent and bought auto insurance. The client was in a hurry and wouldn't take the time to discuss the rest of their insurance needs with the agent. On the way home the client was killed in an auto accident. The family successfully litigated and got a multi million dollar judgement against the agency because the agent didn't try to sell the client life insurance. It was a product the agency offered but because the client was in a hurry the agent decided to wait until a later time to discuss this with the insured. Believe it or not there are a number of examples of this type of litigation against insurance agents.
I realize that just like a lot of other professions there are some real slime ball insurance agents out there. I am not one of them and the agency that has been in my family for 3 generations will not become one of them. I could spend a LOT of time "blowing my own horn" about things we've done to help people but that's not the way I do business either. You're absolutely right if you're guessing that I'm not optimizing my income. I'm probably at the lower end of the income scale for insurance agents. In fact, at this time I'm not even getting a paycheck from my agency because times are really tough here and I want my employees to keep their jobs so I've opted to fall back on other income to make ends meet while we weather the storm. Yes, my family is doing without some things for now but we'll get by and be just fine. Yeah, I would REALLY like to give up life on land and live on my boat but that's just not reality for now. However, god is very much blessing us in other ways. I just got back from a 10 day transit to deliver a boat for a friend from Stuart, Florida to Galveston, Texas and it didn't cost me much of anything.
Sorry, I'll get off my soap box again I just felt compelled to stand up for some of us slime balls out here that really try hard to do the right thing even when it has a tendency to make our lives a little bit harder than we would like.
Merry Christmas to all and God Bless!
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