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Old 21-10-2010, 18:35   #316
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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
All I can say is WTF, is this related to cruising on $500/mo?

I'm probably going to take flack now.
After flashing out all that dosh on a fancy pad.... his wife divorced him, got the lot and he now lives on a '69' Morgan30 and scratches by on $500/mth...
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Old 22-10-2010, 14:45   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The rich go to great lengths to convince us of the myth that only the newest, most expensive boats and gear installed by the most expensive, hired help will do for offshore boats, and anything less is sheer folly. This they do, in a futile attempt to keep the cruising life their exclusive domain.
Those who believe them, waste decades of finite lifetime, following their misdirections. Those who laugh them off the stage, with the contempt they deserve , get out cruising, off their self interest treadmill, and into freedom, far sooner.
When someone tells you the expensive , complex, and time consuming way, is the only logical way, it's time to look for another source of info.

Well said!
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Old 22-10-2010, 18:08   #318
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nonsense....
so the guy that spends $60K to put solar panels on his house, and spends an extra 10K for a hybrid, spends 15K for a water recapture system, etc... is making a LARGER footprint....

you have fallen into the the rich are plundering the earth trap....

prime example... my friend is a successful cosmetic surgeon... he just built a nice waterfront home.... he spent an extra $65K on energy saving add ons.... spray in foam insulation, heated floors, foil lined roof system, etc...

his power bill for his new $900K home is $90.00 per month...
my old $350K home runs about $350.00 per month... who is leaving a larger environmental footprint?

who leaves a larger footprint... the guy that buys a new prius, or the guy that buys an old $500.00 van that gets 8 mpg and leaks oil?

simply looking at spending you cannot correlate footprint....


Without spending there is no economy.....
no new houses, no work for carpenters, electricians, etc...no work for the factory workers that make the materials, etc....

the government and public sector jobs DEPEND on spending....the more you spend the more taxes you generate..
If there was less spending and therefore jobs, there would be less income tax generated.....

without taxes government programs that help to minimize environmental impacts would suffer as there would be less money for inspectors, and lawyers to prosecute....

no taxes, no grants for reforestation, animal shelters, etc...
Don't forget the energy which goes into building a new home , or manufacturing a new car, and everything which goes into it, from scratch.. As I said, there are exceptions , but very few.
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Old 22-10-2010, 19:59   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post

Boats built and maintained by a careful, conscientious home builder are usually far better boats, from a practical use standpoint, than most manufactures boats, as their lives, and the lives of their families, not just their pocket books, are at stake.

Your personal environmental foot print is directly porportionate to how much money you spend.
You're right, and good luck to 'em, but those kinds of people are pretty thin on the ground.

The vast majority of us would never get to sail if there wasn't a commercially built boat industry. And sure, stuff is expensive, over proced even... but the industry is there because enough deep pocketed people are shelling out for it.
The fact they are there means we get the benefit of picking up good gear, used, at good prices while the industry rolls out it's newest and best for the wealthy.

It's a big, broard spectrum industry, and fortunately we all have the freedom to buy in and participate at what ever level of commercial/craftsman ratio mix we like, or can afford.

As to...
Your personal environmental foot print is directly porportionate to how much money you spend...

I'm not having a go at you personally Brent, not at all. I'm the first to say don't litter, and do my block if I see a plastic bag floating in a pristine anchorage...

But, I'm so gaddam sick and tired of the media and government BS we all get fed... to put us on some kind of hysterical guilt trip.
Commercial and government interests rule, and it has nothing to do with whether you put the portch light out at night or not.
They are dying to get their hands on a whole new industry, carbon trading, endless new products we must have to be acceptable... new tax source etc. etc.

We all know the score... convince people they have a problem that HAS to be fixed, then sell them stuff to fix it. But for heaven's sake don't actually fix it because there goes our market... Pharmaceutical companies have been doin' it for years. That industry would be a quarter the size if they stuck to producing only the products we actually need from them.

Your personal footprint is NOTHING! Don't give it another thought. Nothing any of us does personally makes the blindest bit of difference.

I don't know how many people there are in USA... last I looked a while back, around 350 million, before you adopted Mexico.
At the same time the world population was a bit over 5 billion, and probably a whole lot higher now.
On those figures, USA is 7% of the global population, and you or I, just .000000002%.

The biggest cause of mankind's (yeah... you women can still tag along under that label... I'm sure as hell not changing it to "personkind"...!) influence on climate change is coal fired power stations... something like 50% from memory. The jury is still out on how much our overall influence is, but 50% of whatever it is.

I'll believe we really have a problem when the governments of the world treat it that way.... and solve 50% of the problem in a couple of decades by shutting down all coal fired power stations and replacing them with ZERO polluting nuclear power stations.
In addition, and in the short term, provide programs to have solar power on the roofs of every household in countries with suitable climates.

Here in Aus we're the worlds biggest producer of coal. We could turn the tap off and have an immediate influence. But we won't, because solving the problem isn't the goal.

So.... Throw off the burden of guilt, people, we can all live free and enjoy life the way it is meant to be... (pound the pulpit for emphasis here... yeah, I know, not the stainless steel one...)

Ok... I'll just climb off my soap box... dust myself off... wipe the tomatoes and eggs...

Vic
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Old 22-10-2010, 20:06   #320
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Politics and such are off topic on this thread.

This one is about cruising on $500/month (or even extreme budget cruising).

The environmental impact of housing, how the rich are ruining the world and other topics are off topic.

Let's get this one back on topic so it doesn't get closed.

Thanks.
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Old 22-10-2010, 20:10   #321
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Well I'm here to put this puppy to bed ! After about doubling my upfront boat/provisioning /refitting costs .Just about 12k resting in the bank but will prolly spend 2k of that before I leave in November. How long will go for ?? only time and tide will tell.....
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Old 22-10-2010, 20:14   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
All I can say is WTF, is this related to cruising on $500/mo?

I'm probably going to take flack now.
You're right. Bit of continental thread drift here.

But don't you think we have a responsibility to stamp out all thoughts of living on $500/month?

I mean.... how much tax can a government rip out of an irresponsible person like that?
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Old 23-10-2010, 02:40   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
You're right. Bit of continental thread drift here.

But don't you think we have a responsibility to stamp out all thoughts of living on $500/month?

I mean.... how much tax can a government rip out of an irresponsible person like that?

Yeah right! The one who pays most tax is best!

That's pretty much what the tried to make us believe when I grew up....in the 70ies.

Then came the 80ies....and further on.....'the one with most chips when he dies win' was seen on T-shirts a decade or two ago....


My take is that the one who leaves minimum trace in his wake wins. Less stuff, less impact on the environment etcetera....


off topic yes, OTOH nothing on-topic on this thread in quite a few months so why not cut the last few pages out and make it a new thread???


Anyway, that's it for me, the above hasn't really got anything to do with sailing/boating in particular.

Lifestyle and simplicity is another topic, interesting for sure.
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Old 23-10-2010, 14:51   #324
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When I cruised my Stilettoo 27, just my daughter and I, about $150/month insurance, maintenance and the like, $300/month food etc, and a few nights in marinas. Yeah, we kept a log one trip and $500 in the summer was just about doable. Perhaps $600 with gas. Honestly, it was like Vanagan camping with the boards on the roof and not much fun in bad weather, but it was unforgettable. We went places the bigger boats feared.

When cruising my PDQ with my wife... 3 times that figure, if I am quite careful, more if I'm not.

The smaller boat was simpler, and it was much easier to say "no" to my kid, and beach time is free. Eating out and marinas are more.

Which is better? Hard to say. Different.
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Old 23-10-2010, 18:22   #325
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Never had insurance. When I lost my first boat on a Fijian Coral reef , it cost me less to replace it than it would have to insure it, a good argument for keeping a boat inexpensive, and built of steel.
If we don't buy the power, there is one less person to sell it to. Moving aboard, and swinging off an anchor, off grid, makes a huge reduction in your environmental footprint, and is that much less money for polluters.
More freedom for you, as well.
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Old 24-10-2010, 15:44   #326
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So on the $500/mo budget; just what is your diet like. I'm sure it is possible because there are places that $5000/mo is rich, but what are you eating on this cruising budget?
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Old 24-10-2010, 16:37   #327
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Well I've managed Curries, Boli's and Chillis, Bourguignons, Sticky Chicken etc, Stir Frys...... aside from the homemade oat cookies etc... just don't go overboard on the meats... just enough for that texture and build the rest with rice/pasta/veg/salads/bread/lentils/potato's/ etc....
But then I only eat one main meal in the evening... breakfast's a banana or something with cereal or toast.... land or sea..
Stocking for a solo Trans-Atlantic cost me less than $350.... apart from water and fuel.
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Old 24-10-2010, 16:45   #328
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So on the $500/mo budget; just what is your diet like. I'm sure it is possible because there are places that $5000/mo is rich, but what are you eating on this cruising budget?
Your diet will be quite healthy and will promote a longer life. It is easier to say what you will not be eating like junk foods, candy, diet sodas, manufactured and genetically engineered, hormone fed, chemically altered foods, etc.
- - What is left is wheats/grains, local grown veggies, range fed (semi-wild - not feed lots or barn raised) chickens, beef, pork, lamb, fish and clod. Foods that are raised the way Mother Nature designed them to be raised.
- - All that natural food will be cooked, baked, broiled or BBQ's on your own stove. You will make your meals from "scratch," that is, cooking the way your grandmother or great-grandmother did it. No more instant meals, pizzas, TV dinners, etc.
- - It can take an hour or more to prepare your meal and you will spend another hour slowly savoring the results of your culinary efforts while watching a glorious sunset over the water or volcanic mountains with sounds of waves lapping on white sand beaches or pounding against cliffs and rocks.
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Old 24-10-2010, 16:53   #329
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just don't go overboard on the meats... just enough for that texture and build the rest with rice/pasta/veg/salads/bread/lentils/potato's/ etc....
One of things I noticed in South East Asia was how little meat (in comparison to Europe) that folks ate, not just because of cost - but also from choice (although I guess preferences originate from historic times when meat less available). Me having a large steak just looked plain weird .......and that from folks who eat deep fried bugs

Of course not a lot of meat on many of the locals either I guess if yer not the size of a house yer don't need to eat like a horse
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Old 25-10-2010, 14:07   #330
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I'm embarrassed how much money I spent in my youth , paying others to put beans , pea soup , meat, fish, etc, in cans for me.
A years supply of split peas costs around $25, as does a years supply of beans. Bannock, made in a cast iron frypan takes the place of bread, for a fraction the price. Instead of the long, expensive process of making grains into bread, I now put my fried eggs on the grain directly , in the form of brown rice.
I eat a lot of free venison, canned in apple juice , both of which we have a lot of on the BC coast. Ditto fish. Washed down with thimble berry tea, also free, and in huge supply in summer and fall. Ditto nettles, fruit, etc.
My heating bill has been zero for nearly 40 years, as I use a wood stove, and the BC coast is piled high with free driftwood.
My moorage has also been zero for decades, as has my car bills, electricity, insurance,etc . I get my clothing from the free stores .
By the time I was 14 years old, I realized I had two options for dealing with money. Learn to acquire lots, or learn to make it less relevant.
Thank god I chose the later, which gave me far more freedom and security than the former. Those who chose the former seem to have spent all their time persuing it, with very little time left for play time.
No amount of money is never enough, for their lifestyle.
THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL!
When you choose the latter, you have all the time in the world to cook your meals , can , fish, hunt ,etc. They are pleasures , not work.
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