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Old 26-12-2009, 07:44   #181
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As has been said by more than a few dozen post, it all depends on what your standard are.

Think I would rather be in jail than attempt to live on $500/mo as a hard fixed fact. It would not be what 99% of us would call cruising or voygeing.... it is probably more like being a rat on a plank.

As has also been pointed out.... many of the opinions are more esoteric than realistic or based on real life experiences. While the esoteric and often landlocked opinions have some value.... those of people actually doing something similar to what we are doing even to a lesser scale or range, are far more believable and have a far higher credibility. As with many forums, once you have been on for a while you can filter out the posters with real insight and those with just hot air.

Of all the posters on this forum, Markj has more credibility than the vast majority of other opinions being posted because his are more real.... derived from real life not something being chatted about around the coffee table or bar. I'm not posting this to defend anyone... more just to point out to some that you personally need to filter all opinions with your own criteria and determine for yourself who's to accept as realistic and who is simply telling tells, or passing on random thoughts with far less basis. Each of us has our own filter criteria but the more you follow these discussions you will come to recognize authoritative and objective from subjective randomness.
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Old 26-12-2009, 07:59   #182
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And Iím also a human so I eat and drink and bath and in my case these things also cost.
Well, I for one have learned a lot from this thread. Thank God James bathes on a regular basis . Thank God Mark tells it like HE sees it while he's out there (BTW, he's gruff because he's Australian, I think) . I now know the reason some buy boats over 40 feet is for their booze carrying ability, and I know that cruising under $500 a month is still possible, but I'm planning on atleast $500 a week...
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Old 26-12-2009, 09:52   #183
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Forgive me if MarkJ's comments weren't as cynical or judgmental as I interpreted them.

Fact is MarkJ has a sizable, costly boat . . . with sizable associated costs and a budget relative to the psyche that often brings about owning that particular boat.

Nothing wrong with any of this and I'd be a fool not to be jealous of his particulars.

But, while I recognize that we each have our own personal needs and feelings . . . that we each have our own ideas of what's a worthwhile life or endeavor, I don't berate a person for having more . . . or less in life or for having what I might consider a fantasy life. I prefer not to rain(reign) on someone else's parade . . .I like a parade. Small insignificant parades and large parades. Each has it's own unique atmosphere.

There's absolutely no doubt that except for a little Franciscan or Thoreau mentality, any one of us would like to live a lifestyle even better than MarkJ's, since even he has intimated that he's close to his budget.

But, we're not all set in life and we are products of many things that befall us in life. Even for the "dreamer" who makes it big, there are a lot of equally qualified "dreamers", who were in the wrong place at the right time or the right place at the wrong time. Strive as we might in life, not everyone is rewarded in the same.

SO . . . we deal with what we have or work to get more. BUT there is a time limit for all this to happen . . . for all of us. By the time we realize what we really want out of life . . . what dreams or aspirations we feel we need to achieve in our life . . . we're often approaching or well in, the last quarter of our life.

In 40 years time most of us are going to be as forgotten as MarkJ's suicide victim. In 20 more years, it's a near-safe bet that the rest of us will follow . . . and be competey forgotten . . . dreams realized . . . or not. Hopefully the local marina won't "steal", the assets of our estate(it is illegal, at least in America) . . . sorry.

SO, if you have a personal dream that can be realized, even on the cheap, try for it. If you're an American, keep the safety net in place and stay in American waters(LOT'S of "unique" places to go within America(or wherever you hail from)). Because, if $500(or even less) a month doesn't cut it, you can tie your boat to a dock and get a job for a while to recharge your batteries, your soul, or your cache of loot. In other words, if you can't make it on that $500, you have options . . . more options that if you were to find yourself in Shri-Lanka needing a new engine(BTW Pardey's claim a lot of sailing without an engine).

MANY ways of looking at it and MANY ways of doing it and many experts to tell you how to and how not to do it.

I for one, don't expect to sail on $500 a month, but so what? What if I'm sailing on about $1000 per month or $3000 per month and learn to enjoy life on $400 a month? Either I can splurge or hide money in the bulkhead.

My one bit of advice is not to sail to New Zealand on a Great Lakes budget.
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Old 26-12-2009, 10:50   #184
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A most enjoyable thread

Lots of d___ swinging: I have a big boat, you don't; your a drunk, I'm not; You are elitist, I am moral peasantry.

I personally enjoy watching the full spectrum.

When coastal cruising (up to 2 weeks) with just my daughter, about $20/day plus fixed costs (insurance etc). This seems like plenty and if money was tight it could easily be 1/2 that. We fish a lot and explore by tender. My maintenance cost are low because I can do all of my own work.

When coastal cruiseing with my wife, about $75/day plus fixed costs (insurance etc). Lots of eating out and marinas.

Which is better? I love my wife, but I honestly prefer the $20 style, most of the time, but she prefers tying-up. This is why there is no such thing as a true estimate. I like the way I live, and I own a fully-insured boat that is not a "project." But I could enjoy life as much with far less.

As for the poster that said he "would rather be in jail than live on $500/month", pretty funny, I think.
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Old 26-12-2009, 13:39   #185
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$6000 USD total for four years, including buying the boat.

1) Buy an old wooden lapstrake 26 foot Folkboat in Wales. Pull the engine out and drop it over the side.
2) To the Med via the canals of France, pulling the boat while walking along the banks. Sail around the Med for awhile, then back through the canals to England.
3) Sail to the Caribbean for winter, then back to Wales for summer.
4) Back across the pond to the Carribbean. This time, continue through Panama. On to the Galapagos. A year sailing around the vast Pacific tropics, only visiting islands never heard about from anyone before.
5) Around Cape Horn, then to the Falklands.
6) Up the Amazon.
7) Back to the Caribbean, then on to the Azores.

Catch fish and shell fish. Buy CHEAP canned food.

Enjoy!
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Old 26-12-2009, 15:35   #186
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Have you any idea of the cost and requirements for the boat to pass a boat via the Panama Canal??? You May have a shock on arrival.
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Old 26-12-2009, 18:00   #187
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I thought You had to be able to motor at 5 knots to transit the Panama Canal??!!
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Old 26-12-2009, 18:18   #188
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.... Buy CHEAP canned food.
WRONG.

Buy pasta / rice / flour / lentils / beans and COOK your own.

TRUE - hard to beat canned tomatoes on price. Mass production rules or something.

Way cheaper than canned.

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Old 26-12-2009, 18:20   #189
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$6000 USD total for four years, including buying the boat.
Wow! Either Tristan Jones is still alive, or he has taught someone else to make great crap up!
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Old 26-12-2009, 18:23   #190
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I thought You had to be able to motor at 5 knots to transit the Panama Canal??!!
Not 8 anymore?

So, they have lowered the limit!

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Old 27-12-2009, 01:15   #191
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Not 8 anymore?

So, they have lowered the limit!

b.
No. No...

Its 8 kts to go through on the regular fee. US$650 plus buffer etc

5-8kts is US$2,300 plus buffer

4kts and less (no sailing allowed) you have to be tied up to a tug the whole way thrugh - not another cruiser - no one knows the price of that! But must be over US$3k

If you can't go through, like engine breakdown etc you get charged the full fee all over again. There was some guy whose injectors were pemanently stuffed and her tried 3 or 4 times. His was a 26 footer, and each time he had to pay for his 4 line handelers, and lines, tyeres etc and the food. Great guy. But he was stuffed!

Another guy was banned from going through because the Admeasurer didn't think the galley was higenic enough to cook food for the Advoisor and Line Handelers! LOL And we had eaten on board! We didn't die. He went through but has now gone down to the Antartic. I think he sniffs seal blubber

Nic is saying: There is always some extra fee you never thoguht of. Like you have to go to the marina because thats the only way you can get water, etc.

Here, for instance, is an example: the last country we were in, Malaysia, the taxis were cheap and everything was close with greta busses. Here everything is miles apart, there are no busses and taxis expensive!

Go figure.

PS French Polynesia makes you pay a bond for each person to fly home so we were up for US$3,000

Refundable. But when? The other side of the Pacific 6 months later?


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Old 27-12-2009, 05:19   #192
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Actually the Panama Canal is not that bad anymore. I have about 3 or 4 friends a season passing through on their way to the Pacific. The speed requirement is based on being able to make it across the Lake and Locks in one day which needs about 5 to 6 knots to accomplish.
- - Friends in a 42 footer who hired everything including agents versus doing the leg-work yourself and using other cruisers as linehandlers and recycling/renting lines and fenders(tires) - paid just under $2K for the passage. Used a credit card for the damage/delay buffer fee (deposit) and got it back in quick order. The others who D-I-Y and use "buddy boat" cruisers for linehandlers, recycled lines and fenders passed through for about $1K (not counting deposit). There are "tricks" to get the "extra or second day" in the lake without having to forfeit or pay the additional day fee.
- - The French Polynesia Bond is actually an amount equal to the full fare airfare back to the home country for every person onboard. However, if you join the Pacific Puddle Jumpers (free) you can get a bond exemption and not have to deal with it. Otherwise, cruisers use a credit card to purchase the full fare ticket (which is fully refundable) and are only out the interest charges on the credit card for the period of time they are in the French Islands. But even that would be a serious problem for the $500/mo folks who probably do not have credit cards and/or credit limits equal to the airfare costs. Coming up with that amount of cash to deposit in the French bank would be difficult or impossible for them. It would be difficult for folks with normal amounts of cruising money. I get the impression that the South Pacific is not cheap, last reports have the Galapagos at about $500 to get in and out for your typical week stay there.
- - Maybe the North Pacific (US Islands) could be done within the $500/mo budget. The poster above who stays inside his home country waters and can do it for almost no money per month is not cruising but merely doing weekender type sails. I was under the impression the thread was mainly about full-time live aboard cruisers sailing the world in which case the $1K small boat, young crew to $2K average boat, middle age crew and $3K+ large boat, seniors crew are more realistic for frugal cruising.
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Old 27-12-2009, 07:51   #193
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The poster above who stays inside his home country waters and can do it for almost no money per month is not cruising but merely doing weekender type sails. I was under the impression the thread was mainly about full-time live aboard cruisers sailing the world in which case the $1K small boat, young crew to $2K average boat, middle age crew and $3K+ large boat, seniors crew are more realistic for frugal cruising.
Osirissail, you hit the nail on the head! Your 1K, 2k, 3K budget is perfect! This thread (and this forum, mostly) deals with full time cruisers. It's pretty much useless to compare a one or two week cruise with live aboard cruising. ANYONE can stock a well found boat with food, sail around for a month, and spend less than $500. Duh. Now, sail TWO months and have a single Garhauer block and a Hella cabin fan fail...UH OH! Now you are down to $350 to live on that month...Sail THREE months and lose a...you get the picture. Have a small boat, stay local, gunkhole, and I think you could have fun for months at $500...but please have a back-up fund so you can fix something and not have to terminate your cruise early.
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Old 27-12-2009, 09:08   #194
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Your completely right Christian, case in point: Tania Albei's experience with her new boat. As I recall things were breaking down left and right by the time she got to the Pacific. I bet it could be done on $800 in a small simple boat.

Osirus, there are plenty of Non-French Islands in the South Pacific. I say boycott French Polynesia altogether. Go to the Cook Islands, Tonga, Fiji, Solomons ect.. and if an emergency stop on a French Island was required, I'm sure most of us poor sods could cover the plane fare deposit.
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But even that would be a serious problem for the $500/mo folks who probably do not have credit cards and/or credit limits equal to the airfare costs. Coming up with that amount of cash to deposit in the French bank would be difficult or impossible for them.
Yeah, us bottom feeders don't have a pot to piss in do we???
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Old 27-12-2009, 09:50   #195
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Korrekt!!!

Please boycott all French islands! This is perfectly in line with my cruising plans - I love French territories. Next time I come and I see those lovely anchorages NOT crowded by US flagged boats - only then they will become 'paradise island' again. ;-)))

Bond? What bond? ;-))))))

What Mark said about the below vs. above 5 knots in Panama most interesting. I think back in 2004 there was no such differentiation.

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