Cruising on $5,000 / Month

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I'm kinda amazed at how much newbies are worried about costs. Seems that they set up some arbitrary level or lifestyle that must be attained and fail to realize that if that level is not sustainable, a lower level likely will, and that the cruising life can continue even if some compromises must be made. A common comment seems to be that "I gotta keep the wife happy, and she NEEDS thus and such" or she will not go with me. I must wonder about the survivability (sp?) of such a cruise or relationship.
Cheers,

Jim

I'm one of those Wannabe's, not even a newby yet that you speak of. My concern and I assume others like me is that we plan on beginning after any real ability of making money has ended, we can delay the beginning of our cruising a little longer if needed to build up the kitty, but once begun, bridges have been burned, it's sort of a one shot deal, so we gotta aim well.

As far as keeping the other half happy, it's actually pretty crucial, if she isn't happy, how long do you think you will be? I used to enjoy camping, found out pretty quick my wife does not, she will go somewhere in a fully equipped camper, but forget a tent. Oh, she will go, but nobody's going to enjoy it so years ago I got a 36' fifth wheel. During boat shopping I found a 32' I liked, fit me well. SHe sat in it and I could tell she wasn't thrilled, I asked her waht was wrong and her answer was it would get awfully small on rainy days, so I'm buying a 38'. This boat she is happy with and has started shopping on how to "decorate it" whatever that means.

Now she is no primadonna, we have been married since 1982 and have been through pretty much abject poverty to a small amount of affluence, or at least I don't worry about us eating anymore.

This desire to cruise is mine, not hers, but if I can make it comfortable and interesting she will enjoy it, but if I'm having to cut corners and worry about how we are going to pay off some bill so we will be allowed to leave, well I think the enjoyment just won't be there.

This worry and concern is why some will never leave, they will never have a big enough safety cushion, geez it seems 99% of sailboats, never move. Seems just possessing one fulfills the "need" for almost all.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I'm one of those Wannabe's, not even a newby yet that you speak of. My concern and I assume others like me is that we plan on beginning after any real ability of making money has ended, we can delay the beginning of our cruising a little longer if needed to build up the kitty, but once begun, bridges have been burned, it's sort of a one shot deal, so we gotta aim well.

As far as keeping the other half happy, it's actually pretty crucial, if she isn't happy, how long do you think you will be? I used to enjoy camping, found out pretty quick my wife does not, she will go somewhere in a fully equipped camper, but forget a tent. Oh, she will go, but nobody's going to enjoy it so years ago I got a 36' fifth wheel. During boat shopping I found a 32' I liked, fit me well. SHe sat in it and I could tell she wasn't thrilled, I asked her waht was wrong and her answer was it would get awfully small on rainy days, so I'm buying a 38'. This boat she is happy with and has started shopping on how to "decorate it" whatever that means.

Now she is no primadonna, we have been married since 1982 and have been through pretty much abject poverty to a small amount of affluence, or at least I don't worry about us eating anymore.

This desire to cruise is mine, not hers, but if I can make it comfortable and interesting she will enjoy it, but if I'm having to cut corners and worry about how we are going to pay off some bill so we will be allowed to leave, well I think the enjoyment just won't be there.

This worry and concern is why some will never leave, they will never have a big enough safety cushion, geez it seems 99% of sailboats, never move. Seems just possessing one fulfills the "need" for almost all.

You have some very valid concerns! I'm guessing from your post you two haven't done any sailing much. I've got a suggestion … go do some chartering. 30 footer, 35 footer, 40 footer … see what her reactions are. The bigger size may not be the answer. If she doesn't like sailing 75' probably won't be enough.

[Hud3]

Good suggestion, Doodles.

We chartered a bit, and my wife actually brought a tape measure along on our last charter. She measured the cockpit and down below, and came up with a clear idea of what she required to be "comfortable" in a boat. It turned out that an Island Packet 380 filled the bill for her. And me.

After we had owned the boat for a couple of years, I suggested that we take it down to the islands and spend six months cruising. She was intrigued by the idea, but apprehensive. I chartered an IP 380 from Island Yachts on St Thomas and we spent two really great weeks cruising the Virgin Islands. When the time was up, she didn't want to go home. We cruised the islands over the next two years.

Chartering can be a really great way to help crystallize your goals and plans.

[robert sailor]

Chartering is a pretty good plan. My experience is that a real small minority of women are avid sailors among the cruising crowd. My wife loves the lifestyle, the exploring,visiting new countries and experiencing new cultures. She likes the social life with other cruising Gals and enjoys the healthy lifestyle with lots of exercise and good food but the sailing, meeh! its OK and fun for a weekend but crossing oceans for weeks at a time, well she does it because of all the really good stuff, fact is as I get older I'm starting to get more like her, LOL.

[Hudson Force]

I do understand the anxiety with judging cruising costs when moving from employment to retirement. Although we cruised about four months a year for many years before retiring, we still questioned wether we cound continue living on less than our money supply while retired.

During our first year of fulltime retirement cruising I logged every expense in all categories. Our greatest reduction is costs was the lack of cars and all their related expenses. Our greatest variable was "entertainment",- eating out, shore excursions, theatres, etc.

After that first year we had more in savings than the start and I soon quit the list. While cruising we most easily moderate our rate of expense by choosing wilderness achorages, kayaking, swimming and hiking the undeveloped areas! Obviously, we spend more money when we are among those that sell things.

"Do it yourself" maintenance has also been a huge reduction in potentail costs, but the satisfaction and independance that comes with relying on your own research and skills is basic to most people that do well on boats wether they are living aboard, weekenders, cruising or retired.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by igorkiporouk

I told, that we are not full time cruisers.
Of course, our cruising style is very simple. It is as simple as our life style.
When we have the time free of job, we fly where the boat was left and sail to the next destination. We don't stay long in one place because of limited time. Last cruise Marocco-Canary islands-West Sahara-Senegal-Gambia was about 1700 miles. We stay at ancor if there is good ancorage (in Marocco you dont finde them). We stay in marinas o ports, when they are chip (Greece and Canary islands) or when we need it for some reason. We eat out some time and rent car (very cheap in Marocco and Canary).
Our boat is very small and simple.
I have a lot of photos, that can give you an idea of "how we cruise".
2013-2014; 2012-2013; 2012; 2011; 2010

Thank you. That was the kind of detail I was talking about. I kind of knew it might set off this discussion but it gets to the heart of the matter and we are researching for the transition to Europe in a year or so, as a result it is of particular interest.

The definition is wide open, so even though you aren't full time, I would certainly consider you a cruiser.

When you pair it with lifestyles, hearing peoples budgets is still very useful for people trying to figure out if cruising is for them.

I will add that since this is typically a voluntary lifestyle choice, "needs" should not the deciding factor. "Wants" most definetely should be included when making the choice. While I'm sure if we needed to, we could survive on $500/month but it wouldn't be by choice.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Mike, to go a step further, I would honestly say that the only way to be sure how much it will cost is to get out there and do it yourself. No theorizing or comparisons with some other chap will really tell you much about your own costs, for there are too damn many variables, many of which have been bandied about in this thread.

The fact is that there are folks with all sorts of budgets out here cruising, and mostly they succeed in survival and even enjoyment of their lives and cruises. I think one adapts to the available funds or one goes home.

Thanks Jim, I've come to agree with this perspective. We're transitioning to full-timers as of this summer when my spouse and I begin our journey. We've spent years of seasonal cruising on the Great Lakes (I think it's cruising ... might have to check against the Official Definition ), and have been planning our next move for at least five years.

I joined CF in 2011 and have sought to answer a number of questions, not least of which is the elusive: How Much Does It Cost? After 2 1/2 years and nearly 1200 posts I've learned that ultimately only I can answer this, and many other questions. And the only way I can do this is by doing it -- so we're going. Along the way I expect to learn whether I really need an SSB, or a sat. phone, whether I need a bigger bower anchor, is Radar and AIS really indispensable, whether I need to get a gun, and most importantly: how much does it costs us.

[robert sailor]

Mike when we did our first cruising stint it was for 1 year to find out what it really costs and whether we really liked it. I had been reading Pardey's books and similar minimalist books for several months and while we could spend damn near anything we wanted the reason for the cruise was to see what we could get away with and still have fun. I gave my wife $12,000 dollars and asked her to keep track of stuff and see if she could make it last. She hid money all over the boat( I didn't even know where most of it was) but the end result was that she had money left over every month. We only spent 2 days in a marina in Mexico and several weeks in Hawaii. Two things to keep in mind...we did spend most of the time hanging around like minded cruisers and that's far more important than words as if you cruise or buddy with bigger spenders its real hard to stay on a tight budget. And 2 this was in the 80's and costs were much lower then. And finally shorter cruises, say 1-3 years are much cheaper because after that your boat needs to be refitted extensively. You guys will have a blast!

[Teknav]

Your actual monthly cruising cost should include: Medical & Dental insurance, pro-rated maintenance/boat's depreciation and upkeep, food & drinks, pro-rated boat's insurance, cruising related cost (visas, flights, entertainment, land side trips, marinas, laundry, fuel and such). When all is said and done, no one can have the above under $3,000 USD/month, irrespective of their boat's size. Each additional cruising person will add about 35% to the cost.

Cruising and living on the cheap, are mutually exclusive. If one elects to cut corners, for whatever reason, it's his/her prerogative. Those who appreciate the cruising lifestyle understand what it takes.

Mauritz

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks Jim, I've come to agree with this perspective. We're transitioning to full-timers as of this summer when my spouse and I begin our journey. We've spent years of seasonal cruising on the Great Lakes (I think it's cruising ... might have to check against the Official Definition ), and have been planning our next move for at least five years.

I joined CF in 2011 and have sought to answer a number of questions, not least of which is the elusive: How Much Does It Cost? After 2 1/2 years and nearly 1200 posts I've learned that ultimately only I can answer this, and many other questions. And the only way I can do this is by doing it -- so we're going. Along the way I expect to learn whether I really need an SSB, or a sat. phone, whether I need a bigger bower anchor, is Radar and AIS really indispensable, whether I need to get a gun, and most importantly: how much does it costs us.

While the ultimate answer is to get out there and do it, would you wait for the hurricane to make landfall to be sure the forecast wasn't wrong?

We are always learning new things and tweaking the budget but we are very close to our projected budget that we came up with by comparing to others budgets and then tweaking based on how we wanted to live compared to how they lived and spent.

I will caviot that with we kept a detailed budget before we started cruising, so we already had a good grasp of the how and why we spend money. That made it very easy to modify it to see how cruising would play out. Put a little fudge factor in thier for stuff you might have missed but it's still a very valuable exercise to compare to other cruises (once you know how they cruise).

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

While the ultimate answer is to get out there and do it, would you wait for the hurricane to make landfall to be sure the forecast wasn't wrong?

We are always learning new things and tweaking the budget but we are very close to our projected budget that we came up with by comparing to others budgets and then tweaking based on how we wanted to live compared to how they lived and spent.

I will caviot that with we kept a detailed budget before we started cruising, so we already had a good grasp of the how and why we spend money. That made it very easy to modify it to see how cruising would play out. Put a little fudge factor in thier for stuff you might have missed but it's still a very valuable exercise to compare to other cruises (once you know how they cruise).

I'm not sure I follow your weather forecast analogy Val, but I think I get you point. Of course there is value in comparing and learning from others. All I'm saying is that there are so many variables that feed into this question of "how much does it cost?" that it's nearly meaningless to ask in a general way. Information and data from others is good, but unless you're really comparing apples to apples, what I spend is only going to be somewhat correlated to what you spend. To put it in mathematical terms, it's the difference between:
A=B vs. A ∝B

[valhalla360]

I think we are in general agreement.

Just saying it costs X amount to cruise without other supporting information is meaningless.

Maybe I wasn't clear on the hurricane analogy. Meterologists forecast where storms will hit. Wanabee cruisers forecast how much it will cost. Neither will know with certainty until you reach the point of no return but that doesn't suggest forecasting is pointless.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Teknav

Your actual monthly cruising cost should include: Medical & Dental insurance, pro-rated maintenance/boat's depreciation and upkeep, food & drinks, pro-rated boat's insurance, cruising related cost (visas, flights, entertainment, land side trips, marinas, laundry, fuel and such). When all is said and done, no one can have the above under $3,000 USD/month, irrespective of their boat's size. Each additional cruising person will add about 35% to the cost.

Cruising and living on the cheap, are mutually exclusive. If one elects to cut corners, for whatever reason, it's his/her prerogative. Those who appreciate the cruising lifestyle understand what it takes.

Mauritz

Lets see, I've not had medical or dental insurance in ages. Nor been to a doctor in 8 years. My 42 year old boat cost me $11,500 and for me has not deprecated at all. No Visa's...yet. Flights, landside trips, marina's just are not in the budget. Laundry is a bucket and plunger. Entertainment is free e-books, sunsets and annoying people on CF. The best things in life really are free...

But no worries. People have been telling me I can't do things all my life. That oddly has not stopped me at all. But then I might be the exception to the rule.

I will say that at $3000/month and higher, just about anyone can cruise who has the desire. Doing it for less, takes a bit more planning/work/skills. But it is quite easy to do.

People keep trying to make cruising an elite activity needing new 45-50 foot boats with watermakers, radar, multi-function graphic displays and flat screen TV's. But it can be done for less as many have done and are doing today. Lots O people cruise in the $1000-$1500 a month range. OK lots cruise in the $3000-$5000 range too. But the folks doing it for less still are cruising. Its not at all one size fits all.

[Polux]

I cruise for about 4 months a year and I am on a low budget but If I had the $5000 euros month for cruising I would have no problem in spending them. Many marinas on the med for a 13ft boat cost over 100 euros a night, some more.

Yes, I would like to visit Capri for instance, where the bottom is too deep to anchor and the marina costs over 200 euros and is not the only one. Some very nice places are very expensive places.

I would not want to lunch out, I like sailing but at night I would like to have it most of the time on a good restaurant. For two, always in nice places, count 25 euros for the wine and 100 euros for the food. I am not even counting the diesel or the supermarket, or the books or the drinks at night. Just the meals and marina would be over 5000 euros...wait you were talking about USD 5000

Yes, if i had them I could easily spend them without any trouble...and even some more

[igorkiporouk]

Originally Posted by Polux

I cruise for about 4 months a year and I am on a low budget but If I had the $5000 euros month for cruising I would have no problem in spending them. Many marinas on the med for a 13ft boat cost over 100 euros a night, some more.

Yes, I would like to visit Capri for instance, where the bottom is too deep to anchor and the marina costs over 200 euros and is not the only one. Some very nice places are very expensive places.

I would not want to lunch out, I like sailing but at night I would like to have it most of the time on a good restaurant. For two, always in nice places, count 25 euros for the wine and 100 euros for the food. I am not even counting the diesel or the supermarket, or the books or the drinks at night. Just the meals and marina would be over 5000 euros...wait you were talking about USD 5000

Yes, if i had them I could easily spend them without any trouble...and even some more

I don't remember who said: - Cruising costs as much as you can pay. I also would like to spend 5000 euro/month. But if somebody spend such amount and consider it "low budget" it's don't mean, that others can't life and cruise with much, much less and still have fun. Just take 1 euro bottle of wine instead 25. Try to read this blog, especially paragraph FINANCES

To polux: I hope you meant 13 meters boat, because the dinghy i left in marina di Capri free of charge.