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Old 17-06-2010, 21:16   #61
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A number of studies? Give me a break, No such things have ever been done and the reason why is it is quite true that money brings happiness and good health. I have been rich and poor and being rich is much happier. I have worked intimately with millionaires and billionaires and believe me they are very happy and very healthy. The old saw you are quoting/repeating is out there to keep those without access to wealth or the talent/drive to earn wealth from starting a revolution.
- - When you are using your talents and skills to earn big bucks it is really a good feeling. And when you have enough to live/cruise in comfort and without stress about bills or repairs, it is even a better feeling. Not having to worry about diesel prices, marina costs, etc. gives you more time to smell the roses and enjoy the lifestyle you have earned by your own talents and skills. Not having to worry about medical bills or access to top notch medical facilities is a huge reduction in the stress of being cruising off to the far corners of the world.
- - $5K/month on a monohull is comfortable living and maybe add 50% more for the catamaran cruisers. On that amount you can go ahead and "do this or do that" in each new port or island. Doing without when you really want to do something is not happiness, it is stressful and breds resentment towards those that can "do this or that,"
- - The $0.5K/month thread is all about "doing without this or doing without that" and that is not "living" in my book. I worked hard and enjoyed my working years and was amply rewarded. Now I do not have to "do without."
Excuse me, but there are studies and often quoted in the media. I have some, probably back in the office, and will gladly look one or two up and send them to you.

And believe me, as a tax and financial advisor for many wealth individuals and families, I've seen more than my share of unhappy/dysfunctional ones.
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Old 17-06-2010, 21:29   #62
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A number of studies? Give me a break, No such things have ever been done and the reason why is it is quite true that money brings happiness and good health.
This has simply not been my experience. We have several wealthy people in my family (I'm not one of them), and I've watched their fortunes virtually ruin their lives. I'm glad you have managed to stay above this. As far as health goes...I have had rich and poor friends die of cancer. There are no luggage racks on hearses...
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Old 17-06-2010, 21:48   #63
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A number of studies? Give me a break, No such things have ever been done and the reason why is it is quite true that money brings happiness and good health.
O.K., here is one study and if you need more just let me know ...

The rich aren't that happy after all, researchers suggest
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Old 17-06-2010, 21:55   #64
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"The two economists arranged men and women in four income groups: The lowest had household incomes of less than $20,000 US, and the highest were above $100,000 US"

I am perplexed...Above $100.000 household income is considered rich in America?
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Old 17-06-2010, 22:27   #65
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To continue with C Van H's thrust I read the Princeton Study report cited in an above post.
- - Here is the newspaper headline - "The rich aren't that happy after all, researchers suggest" Canada.com [Notice that important modifier -"suggest"]
- - Here is who the "study" surveyed - - ". . . the researchers wrote. "People with above-average income are relatively satisfied with their lives but are barely happier than others in moment-to-moment experience, tend to be more tense, and do not spend more time in particularly enjoyable activities."
. . . Their 2004 study using this method, which surveyed 909 employed women in Texas, provided evidence that higher income played a relatively small role in people's daily happiness.
. . . the researchers conducted an additional DRM survey of 810 women in Ohio in May 2005. . . .
- - Talk about total lack of "truth in journalism" - The headline shouts "rich" and the study is about "above average income" and is all about "working women." The study has nothing to do with "wealthy" people and whether they are more or less happy/healthy than the average - or above average wage earner.
- - As offered in the citing post - let's have some more of these supposed studies . . .
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Old 17-06-2010, 23:08   #66
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"The two economists arranged men and women in four income groups: The lowest had household incomes of less than $20,000 US, and the highest were above $100,000 US"

I am perplexed...Above $100.000 household income is considered rich in America?
It might not seem "rich" but statistically, it's up there.
Using 2007 numbers, the top quintile was above about $91,705.

As for the "makes happy" question, a couple things:
1. The accepted explanation is that money does make you happy, in certain circumstances. Raise someone's income enough to get them out of poverty - makes them happy. But from there on up, shows much less effect.
2. To some extent, as with virtually everything, it depends on how you ask the question. When you ask "How happy are you?" the wealthier tend to self-report higher scores. But when you break it down, "How much time do you spend worrying about money? How much work do you bring home? How much time do you spend relaxing with your kids? How stressed do you feel in a normal week?" you get much less happiness from the wealthier. Some researchers have suggested that this is because people answer the more detailed, quantitative questions more honestly, but "How happy are you?" allows them to answer what they WANT to be true, rather than what actually is.
3. And of course, remember that "happiness" being a somewhat hard-to-define (for research purposes) construct, there are studies on both sides of this argument.

As for the source requests, try starting from the work of Martin Seligman, he is pretty much the father of the "Psychology of Happiness" field.
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Old 17-06-2010, 23:27   #67
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Old 17-06-2010, 23:37   #68
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Money-Happiness Studies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
A number of studies? Give me a break, No such things have ever been done and the reason why is it is quite true that money brings happiness and good health. I have been rich and poor and being rich is much happier. I have worked intimately with millionaires and billionaires and believe me they are very happy and very healthy. The old saw you are quoting/repeating is out there to keep those without access to wealth or the talent/drive to earn wealth from starting a revolution.

- - $5K/month on a monohull is comfortable living and maybe add 50% more for the catamaran cruisers. On that amount you can go ahead and "do this or do that" in each new port or island. Doing without when you really want to do something is not happiness, it is stressful and breds resentment towards those that can "do this or that,"
- - The $0.5K/month thread is all about "doing without this or doing without that" and that is not "living" in my book. I worked hard and enjoyed my working years and was amply rewarded. Now I do not have to "do without."
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf Implies that income is very mildly corrolated with happiness, whereas employment is highly corrolated.

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/a...ion=topstories Implies that income is very mildly corrolated with happiness.

Buying experiences, not possessions, leads to greater happiness Indicates that money used to buy experiences corrolates with better happiness rather than money used to buy possessions.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf Corrolates a sudden monetary windfall such as a lottery winning or inheritance with a sudden moderate increase in happiness, but does not address the long term effects (5-10yr).

The above were 5 of the first 6 results taken from a Google search for 'money happiness studies'.

Other studies have shown that happiness is corrolated with how one is doing relative to their peers or social circle. I am also aware of other studies that have corrolated having a consuming avocation with longevity. I would infer that a consuming vocation or avocation is corrolated with happiness. Interpreting these together, rich people are not happier because of their money but because they have a fulfilling vocation and the money is a side effect of their vocation and/or a counter which shows how they are doing relative to others.

I too have worked closely with millionaires, though not billionaires, I only worked indirectly with two of those. My observation was that those who were most engrossed in their work for it's own sake were happier than those who paid more attention to the money.

I believe that being happy with your choices as a cruiser is mildly related to the amount of money you have, but is much more related to how into the whole process you are. Money removes some causes of unhappiness, but does not provide happiness.
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Old 18-06-2010, 00:10   #69
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Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
A number of studies? Give me a break, No such things have ever been done and the reason why is it is quite true that money brings happiness and good health. I have been rich and poor and being rich is much happier. I have worked intimately with millionaires and billionaires and believe me they are very happy and very healthy. The old saw you are quoting/repeating is out there to keep those without access to wealth or the talent/drive to earn wealth from starting a revolution.
- - When you are using your talents and skills to earn big bucks it is really a good feeling.
That is not true man, I too have worked intimately with million-and-billionaires and most (and I say most) of them are the most miserable human beings I have ever met. I too have been both rich and poor and find that being poor = freedom. Again too each his or her own.

Do not preach your way as gospel, and I will try not to preach mine. Bash would like you to extend him the same courtesy.

Being rich does not unequivocally equal being happy.
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Old 18-06-2010, 03:22   #70
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- - As offered in the citing post - let's have some more of these supposed studies . . .
Survey done for Forbes magazine:

Money Won't Buy You Happiness - Forbes.com
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Old 18-06-2010, 04:23   #71
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Boys boys boys - of course money can make you happy. If I had $5000 p/m I would be very happy - cos I'd be able to:
1- Install a jacuzzi
2 - Stay in luxury houses with hot power showers in every port
3 - Buy full insurance
4 - Eat sushi every week (at restaurants - the stuff I make comes nowhere close)
5 - Have Inmarsat and play webpacman every day
6 - Did I mention annual ski trips?

What were the words of that famous song about dreams? Oh yeah....
Dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream.
Dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream, dream.
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Old 18-06-2010, 04:36   #72
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I had a good friend who retired young, he gave me a great quote to go on:

"when you're young you kill yourself getting all of the money and power that you want and desire. During this time you abuse yourself with late nights, too much work, bad diets, etc.. When you are finally old enough to get and enjoy your money, it is now all being spent on your medical needs, thanks to your physical self abuse getting there.."
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Old 18-06-2010, 11:35   #73
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We worked hard in our 40's and made good money but there was a price to pay for "chasing the dollar" and in the end it was not worth it for US to continue. Still to say that 5K a month would not be nice to have would be silly. In the end we all make choices depending on what are priorities are and either way we can be happy in those choices.
To me I think we should be thankful we can make a choice because in alot of countries people get stuck with what they are born with and never have a choice.
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Old 18-06-2010, 12:08   #74
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We're in the over $5,000 per month category and I'm far happier than the people bickering over weather or not this makes us rich. I'm also happier reading about how we could be cruising on $5KPM than when I'm reading about how unhappy I should be because of a study on what it took to get here.

I'm looking forward to our next increase in happiness that we anticipate when we stop earning and start cruising. Soon, very soon...

Lucky Larry (I know from another thread here that there is no such thing as luck but I can't otherwise explain my lot in life)
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Old 18-06-2010, 12:30   #75
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I think there's a definite freedom to keeping your possessions simple and costs low, even if you have the extra cash.

My vehicle is an old Toyota truck. I sold a more expensive vehicle to buy it and pocketed the rest of the cash. Had to replace the headgasket one year and new valves the next year. Doing the work myself kept the costs of each to about $200-$300 (mostly from machine shop fees). A good deal, especially since a bad day working on your truck beats a good day at work. That work would have cost 3 or more times as much if I'd paid to have it done, and that translates to more time at work and less time sailing.

I get pretty annoyed at things that seem excessively expensive. New cars, especially luxury cars, are a great example (I'm sure this holds for boats too). A scratch, dent or broken cupholder on a 2010 BMW is at least a three digit problem. On an older vehicle, it's a non-issue. I'm not saying that your boat/car shouldn't look nice, but it gets back to the yacht/workboat issue. The more $$$ you have, the more you're bound to waste keeping it up to an asinine level of 'perfection'.
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