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Old 29-06-2014, 16:40   #706
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
You're probably speaking tongue-in-cheek, but you're factually wrong on this one. It's a well-studied topic, and the data is clear: money does not buy happiness.
bet somewhere there is a study that tells you just how correct "studies" are
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Old 29-06-2014, 17:22   #707
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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I've been debating going back to work for a year to save $10k ish. But after factoring cost of a car, car insurance, wear and tear on the car, and fuel, the costs involved just getting too and from work is double what I live on now a days.
It's all part of the wage-slave scam SC. Keeps most of us chained to the tread mill, running hard just to stay in place. You've got it figured out. I'm hoping to follow in your wise footsteps.

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I think it remains that there are happy people and unhappy people at all economic levels. What makes one happy or unhappy might not do the same for another. Therefore, it is wrong for any of us to make assumptions regarding others based on others' budgets or financial status.
That's really the point of some of the research; that our happiness levels are largely set by internal factors. The research (off the top of my head, look up Haidt and Ariely) I'm thinking about looked specifically at the impacts of sudden wealth increases (winning the lottery), and sudden huge blows like amputation. In the studies what researchers found is that the event causes either an upswing (lottery) or downswing (amputation) in the person's levels of happiness. But the surprising thing was that after a few months both sets of people returned to their prior level of happiness.

It's not that life circumstances have no impact. It's just that human happiness is far less determined by what's out there, and much more affected by who you are and how you face the world. Those who are generally "glass half full" folks will always be that way, no matter what the blows life delivers. The reverse also appears to be true; if you are generally a morose, "half-empty" kinda person, then you will be that way no matter how many zeros your bank account has.
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Old 29-06-2014, 17:54   #708
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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It's all part of the wage-slave scam SC. Keeps most of us chained to the tread mill, running hard just to stay in place. You've got it figured out. I'm hoping to follow in your wise footsteps.

Lord give me the courage to change that which I can, the serenity to live with that which I cannot and the wisdom to know the difference.

Life is a game - No one wins and no one gets out alive. The only thing we are given that is finite is time - Use it wisely, don't worry about the BS and you can and will be happy.

As far as work goes - It is critical to do something you love. Last year I was turned on to strengthsfinder as part of an HR exercise. I won't bore you with the details but I can recommend it. I did it for me and then I had my 16 y/o son do it.

It is clear he is not of the engineering personality type. It allowed me to understand what kinds of careers will make him happy (not mine for sure) and that helps me tailor what he should be studying in HS in prep for something else.

The other thing is we've all been sold the Madison avenue, "Gotta have things to be successful" BS. Not only that they've sold us on "name brands" have value - What? That's ridiculous but Prada, Louis Vitton, Gucci etc. have proven people will drop big money for a name.

In regards to winning the lottery? We had a good friend. She won $8 million. A life changer, right? I forget the exact numbers but she cashed out for like $4, paid close to or over a mill in taxes and after 3 years was broke. The assets bought were high cars, RV, Dirt bikes and trailer, boats football season tickets (box on the 40 yd line) Lot's of vacation and clothes and 2 houses.

Oh, and became a "stock trader" - lost her ass on everything she touched. But that was her "new career" as a person of wealth - LOL.

Went back to work and still could not cover the monthly nut of maintenance and running costs for the McMansion and sold at a loss.

Money can't buy happiness but it sure can reveal stupidity!
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Old 29-06-2014, 21:18   #709
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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It's all part of the wage-slave scam SC. Keeps most of us chained to the tread mill, running hard just to stay in place.
If you view work as solely a means to make money, you will never be happy.

If you do not enjoy your job, and view all those niggly things about it that are required to let you do it as a burden, then no amount of money will make you happy with it.

If you love your job, then the money it gives you will make you very happy indeed. And the more the better. For a good part of my career, I thought I was stealing the company blind, while they thought they had me working for peanuts.

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Old 29-06-2014, 21:24   #710
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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If you love your job, then the money it gives you will make you very happy indeed. And the more the better. For a good part of my career, I thought I was stealing the company blind, while they thought they had me working for peanuts.

Mark
We both loved our jobs. I started mine out of college and never changed employers. Still do some consulting for the parent company. My wife loved teaching and working with the kids. At the same time we always made time for each other and for relaxation and recreation. We were fortunate we were able to do that. We enjoyed our lives together. And we planned for the day we could retire as well, hoping to retire before we were too old.
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Old 29-06-2014, 22:04   #711
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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If you view work as solely a means to make money, you will never be happy.
I do not mean to demean or diminish what you or others do. The simple fact is that most people work out of necessity. We do not have the privilege of working for joy or personal betterment. Most people do not have the freedom of "loving" their job. And this reality has become greatly exacerbated over the last 30 years as those at the top have cooked the system to ensure only they benefit from the expanding productivity in most western countries.

As BandB suggests, most of us here are the "fortunate" ones. It's important to remember, most people are not.
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Old 29-06-2014, 22:23   #712
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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I do not mean to demean or diminish what you or others do. The simple fact is that most people work out of necessity. We do not have the privilege of working for joy or personal betterment. Most people do not have the freedom of "loving" their job.
There are all kinds of people and yes - some people have "no choice" and probably pick lettuce for a living. But is that a bad job? For someone who wants zero responsibility and likes being outdoors it's probably great.

A friend gave up his Commercial Contracts Manager job and went to be a baggage handler for Delta. He lost 40 pounds, is fit as hell and loves his job - he gets paid decent, punches out and goes home.

He has adjusted his expectations around what he can spend - but that's just stuff. And actually most of us can live smaller.

I have another friend who is a garbage collector - He works 5am to 8am. He then goes to work as an engineer - He does the garbage collection because he is "paid" to jog 10 miles every day - LOL...

Finally I interviewed a "factory design engineer" for a customer service engineering job. When asked, "What's the biggest risk we take in hiring you?'" (a standard questions) he replied, "Well I really don't like people and I want a job where I do my work at my desk and everyone leaves me alone." At least he was honest - LOL. He probably still doesn't realize he has the right job already!

We also get hung up on promotions. People always ask me if I will "go for" my bosses job when he retires. Heck no- the next level up is HQ based and slaves me to a desk and gets me away from the product and the customers.


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And this reality has become greatly exacerbated over the last 30 years as those at the top have cooked the system to ensure only they benefit from the expanding productivity in most western countries.

As BandB suggests, most of us here are the "fortunate" ones. It's important to remember, most people are not.
This is a different subject then job satisfaction. This is the haves and have not discussion - and I agree with you. The overall income disparity in the US is shocking and growing.

It's no longer just the CEOs - It's down to section manager level where "profit sharing" has created a culture of screw everyone below me.

The French had a bit of a revolution over this a while back...
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Old 29-06-2014, 23:11   #713
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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We also get hung up on promotions. People always ask me if I will "go for" my bosses job when he retires. Heck no- the next level up is HQ based and slaves me to a desk and gets me away from the product and the customers.
Amazing how often people advance to positions they not only are not good at but they hate and so much of that is because they feel that is expected.

I encountered many people who were jealous of someone else's job and you'd ask them if they'd enjoy that job. The answer was "no". So they why jealous of it?

I honestly heard people say things to my wife over her choice of teaching, such as "Why did you choose teaching. You could do so much more?" What more could you possibly do more important than teaching. Plus her specialty was reading programs and I'm prouder of her than I could be over any other job. I often think when asked what we did how I was just a businessman and my wife made a difference in lives.

I had one lady who worked for me over 20 years and I never respected her more than when I offered her a promotion and she turned it down. She knew she could do it, she trained the person who took the position, but she had other responsibilities in her life that she put ahead of the position or the money.

But let's not be dismissive of other problems people encounter.

Now while money doesn't guarantee happiness, let's also not pretend that economic issues don't lead to a tremendous amount of stress and unhappiness. Finances are one of the leading causes of fights between spouses. When you're struggling to provide for your family, to feed and provide shelter for your kids, then life is very difficult. I can't imagine what it feels like to go through what many do and I don't ever want to diminish the struggle many face. And when you lost your job, your car is being repossessed and your house is being foreclosed, then there is no attitude that can suddenly make you happy. It's one thing when it's only you, but when it's those impacted that you feel a responsibility toward, that's far worse.

There are many people not as lucky as any of us here. Not as lucky as the wealthy cruiser or the $500/month cruiser.
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Old 29-06-2014, 23:27   #714
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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<snip>

Now while money doesn't guarantee happiness, let's also not pretend that economic issues don't lead to a tremendous amount of stress and unhappiness. Finances are one of the leading causes of fights between spouses. When you're struggling to provide for your family, to feed and provide shelter for your kids, then life is very difficult.
When you are at the bottom of the ladder and can't get shelter and food - that is seriously tough - no doubt.

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<snip>
It's one thing when it's only you, but when it's those impacted that you feel a responsibility toward, that's far worse.

There are many people not as lucky as any of us here. Not as lucky as the wealthy cruiser or the $500/month cruiser.
I think one thing we fall into is always wanting to meet our kids' expectations. Today the peer pressure is brutal - iPads, iPhones, the right shoes, the right clothes etc.

When I was young we were definitely tight on a budget. We didn't have more than 1 tv. until the 80's. Didn't have color tv until the late 80s.

We had a deck of cards, we had board games, we had backgammon, checkers, chess etc.

We also had a house full of fun and love. My best friend in HS was a "rich" kid. Parents gone working all the time and when home had basically no interaction with him. He spent almost 3 years "at our house"

I won't say we didn't know we were poor (I shopped at Goodwill!) but it didn't matter. Kids spend too much time in HS socializing and meeting the (wrong) expectations of people they will never see again.
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Old 30-06-2014, 05:38   #715
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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There are all kinds of people and yes - some people have "no choice" and probably pick lettuce for a living. But is that a bad job? For someone who wants zero responsibility and likes being outdoors it's probably great.
Notwithstanding individual anecdotes, I guess my point is that most people don't have a lot of choices around their work and employment. Most people work at the lower rungs of society, have fewer workplace choices, and mostly work to survive and thrive. Their life's happiness is found, not in their wage toil, but in other things like friends, family and other activities that money allows. This notion that you must love your work is a modern one, and I would say somewhat elitist. Most people in this world don't have this option. Most work to have the resources so they can thrive, and hopefully create joy in some places of their lives.

This doesn't mean most people actively hate their jobs. Most people can find ways to be satisfied and content. Humans have a great ability to adapt, and an equal one for self-delusion.

Survey results: Most Americans Not Happy at Work
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Old 30-06-2014, 05:49   #716
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

I have known people that make good money and are broke all the time. AKA Ask any lottery winner how they feel after a year. I have also known and seen people that are dirt poor in the streets dancing all night long with laughter and smiles on their faces. Do they know they are poor? Sure they do. Look at Brazil.
What matters what truly makes a difference is what you do with the money you have. 170,000 a year and worried about buying his kids cloths? Get rid of the huge house and learn to live on 70% of your income. Tell the wife she is on a budget , and learn to tell your wife and kids NO!
If you are poor and barely making it you have to work smarter and delve into other income streams that have more monetary potential. Drop the beer bottle and crack pipe and get to living cleaner. Your vices will keep you down.
It's all about working smart not hard and making money work for you.
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Old 30-06-2014, 06:02   #717
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I may not be happier with more money but I would be more comfortable.

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Old 30-06-2014, 06:24   #718
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

My current planned cruising budget is 21% of what our household currently makes. The only way this works is because we do work we don't like for the the money. But this is also why we are going to be able to stop working early to go cruising.
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Old 30-06-2014, 06:52   #719
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My current planned cruising budget is 21% of what our household currently makes. The only way this works is because we do work we don't like for the the money. But this is also why we are going to be able to stop working early to go cruising.
Hard working owners are my favourite people.. it means they can afford to hire me to move their boats to nice places..
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Old 30-06-2014, 07:25   #720
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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If you are poor and barely making it you have to work smarter and delve into other income streams that have more monetary potential. Drop the beer bottle and crack pipe and get to living cleaner. Your vices will keep you down.
It's all about working smart not hard and making money work for you.
The implication that all poor are drinking or smoking crack or have other vices is insulting. What about the person who got sick, had surgery, and can't return to their job? Or what about when both spouses worked for the same company and it closed with no notice? Bad things can happen to good people. What about the mom with two kids and the father just leaves with no warning and no support? There are many things that can lead to problems.
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