Cruising on $5,000 / Month

[colemj]

To put some of the costs in perspective, our health insurance, for a 45 and 51 yr old, costs $350/month. Our boat insurance costs $304/month.

If one is willing to go without any insurance for their boat or health, or they live in a country where low-cost health is considered a priority for their citizens, then a significant amount of costs can be dispensed with ($650/month in our case).

We had a single insurance claim - a lightning strike whose insurance payout covered all insurance payments we ever made to that point, as well as the next 5 years of them (10 years of payments). I'm sure others could state similar examples for health problems.

Insurance is neither bad nor good in this context - however, one must keep in mind that to claim one lives on $X per month without insurance, one must be willing to admit that a catastrophic boat or health problem could likely raise that to $100X per month.

Mark

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by colemj

Insurance is neither bad nor good in this context - however, one must keep in mind that to claim one lives on $X per month without insurance, one must be willing to admit that a catastrophic boat or health problem could likely raise that to $100X per month.

Insurance of course is ONLY good if you needed it. That is the gamble, to "waste" the money if never needing, or to win the jackpot if you do.

Even as a potential $3k/mo cruiser insurance is still a very wild card as to what to do.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by colemj

To put some of the costs in perspective, our health insurance, for a 45 and 51 yr old, costs $350/month. Our boat insurance costs $304/month.

My boat insurance is only $33 a month for full coverage too. Of course, Its a cheap boat and I've never had a claim. Medical insurance on the other hand, I'm doing without as I've no money for it.

Even when I paid for medical insurance I only used it rarely. But then I drove without a spare tire for years too.

[colemj]

Yes, boat insurance will be highly variable, but health insurance in the US is more standardized/uniform.

Going without boat insurance means worse case you lose the value of the boat. I think it is a smart thing if everyone is set to handle this possibility whether you have insurance or not.

Going without medical insurance in the US is a real crap shoot. A bad health event can rack up bills many, many times the cost of any boat. Enough to bankrupt one for the rest of their lives. And to refuse health care at that point is facing a short future, so in which the question of cruising is moot.

Mark

[Hudson Force]

So many choices...! I can lose my cheap boat and replce it out of my pocket, so I don't carry hull coverage, but I keep liability. I can not cover potential health problems so I'm strong with health insurance. I don't own a car so ,- no auto insurance. Everybody should do best to cover their needs of managing risk with a different plan. There's not much advice that tranfers equally across from one to another.

[aclmck]

Originally Posted by colemj

Yes, boat insurance will be highly variable, but health insurance in the US is more standardized/uniform.

Going without boat insurance means worse case you lose the value of the boat. I think it is a smart thing if everyone is set to handle this possibility whether you have insurance or not.

Going without medical insurance in the US is a real crap shoot. A bad health event can rack up bills many, many times the cost of any boat. Enough to bankrupt one for the rest of their lives. And to refuse health care at that point is facing a short future, so in which the question of cruising is moot.

Mark

Hi Mark,

If your"cruising" many i have asked say that if the weekly budget is X after insurances,boat kitty,phones etc (fixed costs) they want a week Out on the town they simply cruise for the week before this gives them 2X and so on, Most of the cruisers i have spoken to with Med or pacific areas state that they can't spend $1000 a week. They still live well, go on tours,sightsee, hire cars nice meals etc they all say that they have change (lots of it some weeks) they say that they simply cruise to new countries or destinations while waiting for the kitty to build up if they overspent in one area, most of them fly home for a while each year helps to save them a bit also. i have spoken to people with various amounts and the ones with more generally do less on the boat themselves but probably spend as much of their time as the diy'ers trying to arrange these things so although they don't do the work they pay to have it done they generally spend more of their time getting a job done, so their boat kitty takes a lot more cash.

so work out your budget on a weekly basis only on spare cash and see what you can do, allow for sailing time and it soon adds up so you will find that the amount you thought you needed won't be as high as your actual needs.

of course if your not cruising around this won't be the case but i'm sure with a lot of thought that you could live on the hook say 1 week in 3 (do you boat chores in this week)that should help your budget for the remaining 2 weeks .

You have to eat wherever you are and food is not all that expensive depending on your tastes and on the hook this is your only cost (or it can be)

Plan your cruising so that sail is preferred option and motor is kept for berthing or mooring. you should be in no rush so this is the option most cruisers want and wait for when moving if at all possible

[colemj]

Originally Posted by aclmck

Hi Mark,

If your"cruising" many i have asked say that if the weekly budget is X after insurances,boat kitty,phones etc (fixed costs) they want a week Out on the town they simply cruise for the week before this gives them 2X and so on, Most of the cruisers i have spoken to with Med or pacific areas state that they can't spend $1000 a week. They still live well, go on tours,sightsee, hire cars nice meals etc they all say that they have change (lots of it some weeks) they say that they simply cruise to new countries or destinations while waiting for the kitty to build up if they overspent in one area, most of them fly home for a while each year helps to save them a bit also. i have spoken to people with various amounts and the ones with more generally do less on the boat themselves but probably spend as much of their time as the diy'ers trying to arrange these things so although they don't do the work they pay to have it done they generally spend more of their time getting a job done, so their boat kitty takes a lot more cash.

so work out your budget on a weekly basis only on spare cash and see what you can do, allow for sailing time and it soon adds up so you will find that the amount you thought you needed won't be as high as your actual needs.

of course if your not cruising around this won't be the case but i'm sure with a lot of thought that you could live on the hook say 1 week in 3 (do you boat chores in this week)that should help your budget for the remaining 2 weeks .

You have to eat wherever you are and food is not all that expensive depending on your tastes and on the hook this is your only cost (or it can be)

I'm a bit confused by your post. You responded to a quote of mine about insurance, but then told me I should work out our weekly budget?

We have been cruising full time for 6 years now, so understanding our costs isn't an issue for us.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying or asking?

Mark

[aclmck]

Sorry Mark,

i replied to the wrong post, trouble when using a small screen didn't realise

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by colemj

Yes, boat insurance will be highly variable, but health insurance in the US is more standardized/uniform.

Going without medical insurance in the US is a real crap shoot. A bad health event can rack up bills many, many times the cost of any boat. Enough to bankrupt one for the rest of their lives. And to refuse health care at that point is facing a short future, so in which the question of cruising is moot.

Mark

My rather modest 42 year old sailboat, represents the sum total of my assets. As luck would have it, it falls easily within the civil exemptions for a homestead, least wise in California, so I'm not too worried about loosing it. Also Social Security is exempt from garnishment also. While most folks will have a hard time living on Ss. Myself, I will look at it as a windfall of over $1000/month income (after taxes, costs).

For me, being a poor sailor, its more important that I protect the only home/asset I have. Being healthy and living on the street is not something I would be happy with. Plus there is just no way I could afford medical insurance and eat too. Such is life.

I do enjoy my low stress, carefree lifestyle. Gee up to 100 years ago folks did not have medical or boat insurance. We all die, but many never live.

[BWB75]

Originally Posted by BandB

It's all about compromise. Again the age and condition of the boat will significantly impact maintenance costs. But I'd say you have a real struggle to meet that $3,000 mark. I think size of boat is critical to you meeting it. Go too big and the costs, especially marina, are going to push you above that. I'd think of it this way. Minimum costs (with insurance) let's say fixed at $1000 and that is eating inexpensively on board, some motoring, anchoring, and not running a generator when anchored. Now let's add $1000 for maintenance and repair and saving for big items, all assuming you hire it all. That brings you to $2000 and leave $1000 for non essentials or variable items you control.

Now, everytime you use a marina that adds. Where you are, let's say 40 foot boat. Marina adds $80 per night in your cruising area. Depending on boat and engine add $1-2 per mile for time on power. Every meal out add $10 and fancy meals out add $50 for the two of you. These are just arbitrary figures. So you'd have room for Marina 12 nights or Engine an extra 5000 miles or Fancy meals out 20 times or entertainment at $100 ten times. You can have some of those but not all. Maybe practice now controlling your food expenses to a budget. In fact, perhaps take $1000 and say that's all you have next month for food, entertainment, and gas for your vehicles. See how that goes?

Then cruising becomes compromises. Maybe you're going to Nassau and would like to dock at Atlantis for a week, go to a show, use the casino and eat in the nicest restaurant every night. That would be $1100 for the dock, $200 for show, $500 casino, $600 for restaurant. So which of those do you do? Many marina one night, limit self to $100 for casino, fine restaurant one night. Now you're at $160 + $100 + $100 and used $360 or 36% of your monthly variable money available. But the rest of the week you anchor, eat on board or inexpensively, don't gamble.

You decide $100 on cell phone or $300? Directv on boat eats money fast.

See for $3000 you can have a certain size boat, use marinas some, eat out some, go to entertainment some, but can't have it all.

Everyone in life, yes even the wealthy, has a budget they need to live on. It's managing that budget that's key and deciding within it what is important to them. This all assumes no financing of boat and that would certainly eat away at the dollars.

Think of how much you spend today and determine if that kind of spending fits or if you can live with the changes.

Thanks, BandB! This is the best post I could have hoped for and one of the best answers I have ever read on the topic.

I quoted the whole thing because it's worth reading twice.

[Airshac]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Very interesting post and thinking about it brings up the idea that maybe the concept of money vs. happiness is being looked at backwards. I gather from the article that what money does buy is reduction in grief/misery. Happiness according to the article is a mixture of two factors inherent in the individual's basic nature. Some folks are naturally happy in most circumstances and other folks are naturally miserable in most circumstances. So having more money allows you to reduce the external factors that promote misery, tension, aggravation. Mitigating or removing such externally imposed "downers" allows the individual to allow their natural inherent happiness to express itself - or - their natural despressive self to lighten up.
- - Which might explain that in some people increasing wealth brings increased opportunity to express natural happiness and in others it make very little difference as they were born miserable to one degree or another.
- - Job satisfaction is a subset of this where you are paid for doing things that you enjoy and are naturally good/talented at accomplishing.
- - When it comes to cruising budgets the $5K/month seems to be just "over the border" into the greener pastures of not having to worry or stress out over the costs of breakdowns, repairs, parts, or cruising areas. The removal of such impediments to enjoying yourself while cruising is very evident in any cruising community and can be correlated to the affluence of the cruiser. That said, there is always "that 10%" of any population that are miserable and complaining no matter what.

This year I have gone from barely making $30,000 with a family 6 to making $70,000 + and I can tell you while money might not buy happiness it does buy peace of mind and then, as you were saying, allows you to relax a little from stressing about as many daily things.
As far as $500 vs $5000 I'd say it just depends on you perspective and how many people are dependent on your provision. I think growing up sailing the world wold be one of the best experiences for a kid but can you as a parent provide adequately for them on $500/month. I doubt it. So you postpone till the kids are out of the nest or you have income to make the journey happen.

[w32honu]

5K a month to cruise on!!!!! Holy smokes. Just the idea confuses me. I have no idea what I would do with that kind of a cruising kitty.

I do know that the expenses would probably not be boat related. Whatever popped up as an opportunity or life experience. And it looked like the thing to do………..Done!!!!

Imagine that……..

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by w32honu

5K a month to cruise on!!!!! Holy smokes. Just the idea confuses me. I have no idea what I would do with that kind of a cruising kitty.

I do know that the expenses would probably not be boat related. Whatever popped up as an opportunity or life experience. And it looked like the thing to do………..Done!!!!

Imagine that……..

well that is the point, to get beyond boat related expenses and enjoy cruising

[w32honu]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

well that is the point, to get beyond boat related expenses and enjoy cruising

Count me in……..

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

We all die, but many never live.

Wow! That's a great statement!

I have lived poor. I didn't like it. But those who haven't lived poor can't really understand it.

Trade offs must be made but the real trick is that one gets very creative.

I didn't have "new" clothes until about 14 when I went to work. St. Vincent DePaul, Goodwill, "day old" bread, powdered milk, meat and eggs? (loooxury, Ai tll ya...)

I am not bitchin' or wearing a badge of honor here. It's a reality for a lot of people.

BTW - As a previous poster said. "Money doesn't buy happiness." But it will buy you a boat big enough to cruise up next to it...