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Old 16-06-2010, 08:54   #46
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Have all the fun you want, providing it's not at the expense of others. At that point, it's no longer "fun," it's "bullying." When you feel compelled to make the same critique two posts in a row, it becomes "persistent bullying."

Having spent decades in education, I'm well aware that the first thing the playground bully always says, by way of an excuse, is "we were just having some fun."

Always.
Bash,

You're reading much too much into Doodles' post and, in so doing, altering the nature of this thread from an amusing and informative one to one that starts getting personal. Lighten up, we're not in the schoolyard anymore and I'm sure nobody feels that they're being bullied.
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Old 16-06-2010, 09:07   #47
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It is always somewhat amusing to me to read what people think they will spend once they are out cruising full time. The old adage was to calculate what you think you will spend.......and then double that figure and you will be close to reality

On 1 May we celebrated our 4th anniversary as full-time cruisers and I reviewed our actual expenses to date. Please note that I record every single penny we spend daily. I don't just ball-park numbers by making assumptions; I literally record every penny spent. In 4 years we have spent $212,619.72 and I posted the breakdown on our blog at S/V BeBe: Log and Costs


Whatever you think it will cost to cruise.....double that number.

Judy
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currently in Malaysia and halfway through our circumnavigation
This is consistent with our experience while out cruising as well. Unfortunately it was that extra mark up that I did not calculate in combined with the market meltdown that has forced us back to work
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Old 16-06-2010, 10:08   #48
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What I really thought we would have on our budget was a contingency fund of $5,000. So no matter when I look into the account there would be $5k cash ready for trouble.

Trouble with that is that their ain't neva been no money for no contingency fund.

There is a difference: With no contingency fund any email from home can be a downer; any time the engine seems to sound different the cold sweat starts; any time theres a bang I grab the calculator on my may topsides...

I would love to have that little bit of meat in the sandwich, the bit of cream on the coffee, the tiny bit to be able to sit back and say "Don't worry, a bit of money will fix that!"

The contingency fund is not really anything to do with how much money per month is in the budget, its about how well you can ease into the budget and knowing the first month will be the most expensive so you need a bit more; and the first year the most expensive so you need a bit more.

So for folks who are in the planning stage now get that first month and first year buget set at +10% or +20% and set your contingency fund on top of that.

If you look at Judys figures you will see that the first year is by far the highest, then the second year.... and by the 3rd year they have finally worked out how to do this cruising game and the 4th year proves it.



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Old 16-06-2010, 16:18   #49
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svBeBe,

Thank you for the info and the link.

I appreciate it.

Health insurance???

And that MOAS seems to be pretty cool.
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Old 16-06-2010, 21:16   #50
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svBeBe,

Thank you for the info and the link.

I appreciate it.

Health insurance???

And that MOAS seems to be pretty cool.
Re: health insurance
Bill has VA medical coverage. This requires an annual physical which necessitates an annual trip back to the States for him. He has Crohn's disease and the medication he takes costs us 5k per year if we have to pay out-of-pocket. With the VA coverage, this script costs only $15 per month; so the cost of the annual trip home is still far less than us paying for the script without VA coverage. He obtained the VA coverage near the end of our second year of cruising.

I have no health insurance. Fortunately, I am very healthy. So I pay cash in whatever country we are visiting should the need arise. Thus far, the only medical expenses I have had are my daily thyroid replacement pills. Typically in foreign countries I can buy thyroid pills for an entire year for about what I paid per month in the USA where I did have medical insurance. And that is for the same drug by the same manufacturer.

The first year we were cruising we carried medical insurance, but dropped it the second year as we saw what a total waste it was. Paying cash for medical care outside the USA is a fraction of the same care at home. I would never return to the USA for medical care but would seek treatment locally. Bill would be covered by the VA if an emergency required treatment locally;otherwise, he would return to the USA for regular care.

Last year our grandson broke both bones in his forearm while visiting us in Australia. Emergency room with 4 follow-up visits, 4 doctors, 2 x-ray technicians and lots of x-rays, 2 nurses, all medications, and 2 casts cost us a whopping $189.50 AUD. The follow-up to remove the final cast cost $60 AUD. That same care in the USA would have cost well in excess of 5k. Our grandson was covered by Aetna insurance at home but that was useless in Australia. In our experience, paying cash locally for medical care has worked well.

Yes, the MOAS is impressive. As you could see, Bill loves playing with Excel.

Judy
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Old 16-06-2010, 21:28   #51
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Going "naked" on medical insurance coverage in your "home/passport" country is a gamble that may pay off if you are young and healthy and not accident-prone. In the last two years I have had two very good cruising friends get seriously burned and in one of the cases - die because of lack of "home country" medical coverage.
- - One incident involved a simple fall down the companionway ladder resulting in a fractured spinal disc. The local medical facilities tried their best but it was beyond their technology and experience. My friend had to be Med-e-Vac'ed back to the USA at $30K and then faced many $K's of hospital/physician costs for "uninsured" services.
- - The other involved cancer related to old age. The surgery was improperly done again due to lack of experience - the locals never live long enough to experience the problem. By the time they got back to their "home country" the situation was past the point of intervention and the woman died.
- - So going "naked" on home country medical is a big gamble - if young and naturally healthy you might "win" some by avoiding the dollars spent "for nothing," But, if not, then you are gambling with your life - or more seriously - with the life of your spouse. Insurance by definition is a "gamble" you're betting you will get sick/injured and the insurance company is betting you will remain healthy.
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Old 17-06-2010, 17:26   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svBeBe View Post
Re: health insurance



Last year our grandson broke both bones in his forearm while visiting us in Australia. Emergency room with 4 follow-up visits, 4 doctors, 2 x-ray technicians and lots of x-rays, 2 nurses, all medications, and 2 casts cost us a whopping $189.50 AUD. The follow-up to remove the final cast cost $60 AUD. That same care in the USA would have cost well in excess of 5k. Our grandson was covered by Aetna insurance at home but that was useless in Australia. In our experience, paying cash locally for medical care has worked well.


Judy
S/V BeBe
G'Day Judy,

Fascinating! There must be two Australias... we've found the medical expenses here to be quite high. Not as high as in the USA, but well higher than your example. Could you tell us where that took place? Our experiences range from Tasmania up the east coast as far as Cairns, and have covered several surgeries as well as routine visits.

Having said that, we too have found that in many of the South Pacific cruising areas medical expenses are much smaller than in the USA. However, in some instances it is a case of "ya gets what ya pays for", and when Ann needed major back surgery we returned to the States (and Medicare) and were glad that we did.

The terms of our "retirees" visas here in Oz require that we maintain local Health coverage. The cheapest we found that meets the requirements runs nearly 3K AUD per annum for the two of us and has lots of fine print limiting their coverage... things like pre-existing conditions not being covered. Oh well, it satisfies the Immigration folks, and we would most likely again return to the states for anything major.

Getting old is expensive and in general is the pits, but we're still out here sailing!!!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Iluke, NSW, Oz
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Old 17-06-2010, 17:29   #53
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Congratulations Don, Great Thread

If you think like a $5000 per month person, you'll find the way to do it.

Greg
Yeah like sitting behind a desk and wasting half of your life. Sounds great. I would rather live cheap and enjoy the real and simple joys of life, my entire life. You can keep your five grand and I will keep my freedom, thanks.

Not to be too harsh or anything, to each his own.
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Old 17-06-2010, 17:52   #54
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Yeah like sitting behind a desk and wasting half of your life. Sounds great. I would rather live cheap and enjoy the real and simple joys of life, my entire life. You can keep your five grand and I will keep my freedom, thanks.

Not to be too harsh or anything, to each his own.
I agree.

There have been numerous studies done in the last decade or so that have attempted to correlate "happiness" and financial condition, and they have all found that the level of reported "happiness" does not increase with income after a certain point and that point is amazing low. I don't have any figures in front of me but I think its around $20K a year where things start to level off. Hard to believe I know but true.
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Old 17-06-2010, 18:26   #55
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I had a quick look at bebe 's numbers for year one. It would be pretty easy to knock 30k off that figure and not suffer very much.

I have to admit I don't know why some people have to spend so much on spare parts. In 8 years I replaced both batteries once, and an alternator, one block on the boom vang (went up a size, no more problems) but that was it.
Admittedly after 8 years the buyer was up for a few new sails, and I would have replaced the standing rigging about then.
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Old 17-06-2010, 19:14   #56
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Bash,
You're reading much too much into Doodles' post and, in so doing, altering the nature of this thread from an amusing and informative one to one that starts getting personal.
I agree that I'm certainly reading Doodles' comments differently than you appear to be. My point was that there are different ways to go about the cruising lifestyle. Some decide to go young and go cheap since they won't be earning money during the cruise. Others, myself among them, decide to work until retirement and then use a well-earned pension to cruise. This latter group has earned the right not to be told, twice, "Just get the condo and be done with it." (And please note that I ignored this comment the first time it was proffered.)

I'm still nine years away from retirement. At that point I will have paid off an enormous boat mortgage, I will have spent 15 years setting my boat up as the ultimate cruiser, and I will have a comfy enough pension to spend at least $60,000 per year while I cruise. At that point I will certainly not want to hear such an ageist remark as "Just get the condo and be done with it."

If people choose to go about cruising differently than I am, I'm certainly fine with that. The last thing I would elect to do is go into the cruising-under-$500-per-month thread and chant, "Just get a job!"

I would appreciate reciprocal civility on this thread.
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Old 17-06-2010, 19:17   #57
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Some people are constantly improving and modifying.
I have a Porsche 914 that I drive daily. I've spent about $200.00 on parts in the last 2 years and that includes tires. It's not a really nice car but I like it.
My friend has a Porsche 914, the same year car. He's spent almost $50,000.00 on parts in the last 7 years. It is a very nice car and everybody likes it.
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Old 17-06-2010, 19:33   #58
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Well we certainly have gotten off track. Whether you agree with spending $5k/mo (or more) wasn't the question.

It was what you would do cruising with it.
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Old 17-06-2010, 20:30   #59
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I agree.
There have been numerous studies done in the last decade or so that have attempted to correlate "happiness" and financial condition, and they have all found that the level of reported "happiness" does not increase with income after a certain point and that point is amazing low. I don't have any figures in front of me but I think its around $20K a year where things start to level off. Hard to believe I know but true.
A number of studies? Give me a break, No such things have ever been done and the reason why is it is quite true that money brings happiness and good health. I have been rich and poor and being rich is much happier. I have worked intimately with millionaires and billionaires and believe me they are very happy and very healthy. The old saw you are quoting/repeating is out there to keep those without access to wealth or the talent/drive to earn wealth from starting a revolution.
- - When you are using your talents and skills to earn big bucks it is really a good feeling. And when you have enough to live/cruise in comfort and without stress about bills or repairs, it is even a better feeling. Not having to worry about diesel prices, marina costs, etc. gives you more time to smell the roses and enjoy the lifestyle you have earned by your own talents and skills. Not having to worry about medical bills or access to top notch medical facilities is a huge reduction in the stress of being cruising off to the far corners of the world.
- - $5K/month on a monohull is comfortable living and maybe add 50% more for the catamaran cruisers. On that amount you can go ahead and "do this or do that" in each new port or island. Doing without when you really want to do something is not happiness, it is stressful and breds resentment towards those that can "do this or that,"
- - The $0.5K/month thread is all about "doing without this or doing without that" and that is not "living" in my book. I worked hard and enjoyed my working years and was amply rewarded. Now I do not have to "do without."
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Old 17-06-2010, 21:07   #60
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So I am new to the forum and have been looking at the posts.......we are not wealthy by monetary terms.......and we are planning on semi-retiring in 2-3 years........not including the purchase of a newer vessel, we thought that the 5000. a month was a bit "much".....we are 41 and 40 and have two school aged children.....is this all out of reach? 5000 a month would actually be our budget, well actually about 4000. we plan on cruising Mexico and eventually reach the BVI's....what are the actual expenses people are spending?
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