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Old 25-02-2014, 12:12   #391
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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There you go with the back handed put down. "But I overcame it" I guess I can put you in the hater crowd also.
Honey, that was a joke. I don't hate anyone.
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Old 25-02-2014, 12:16   #392
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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Probably true. But I can not find much evidence to support it as an long term average. I believe the lowest records I have found for a cruiser (not a living on a boat) couple has been about $1500/mo and that was for 2 years.

What was the movie line, oh yeah "show me the money".
I gave a pretty detail posting of my expenses on DOJ's $500 cruising thread. I don't really need to repeat that.

Oh, I do agree for the average Joe, $1000 to $1500 would be a good budget. Me, I've never been average.
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Old 25-02-2014, 12:17   #393
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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BTW - I don't have anything aganist "frugal" cruisers as I believe I'm basically one of them (no where near $500/mo overall as I'm not planning on limiting myself to some place that allows that).

But I will say I think some are pretty delusional.
Delusional is my middle name.... Works for me.
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Old 25-02-2014, 12:18   #394
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

Guess I just don't see why it has to be a big deal either way.

If someone wants to live on $500/month and is happy to do that, good for them. As long as they aren't on here complaining about how hard their life is, I don't see any reason to hate on them. They are choosing that life. Literally anyone from a first world country can easily get into a situation where they have income higher than that. So to be forced to live on an income that low is completely by choice.

OTOH, the same goes for someone living on $10,000/month and complaining about how expensive it is. Literally anyone can cruise for less than that. They simply chose a lifestyle and level of comfort that requires high expense. So nobody on here wants to hear them complaining about what they volunteered for.

Other than that, whatever makes you happy I say.
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Old 25-02-2014, 12:23   #395
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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I don't imagine most super-cheap cruiser take the time to write up a budget and publish it on the net.
Bingo....most ultra budget cruisers don't have/want a laptop, the power to run it, or spend $5 on a coffee to get "free Wifi". The very thing that often makes them ultra budget cruisers in the first place also tends to make them shy away from the spotlight of posting their private details on the internet for the world to see. We posted every dollar spent on our 4 year crusie http://www.svthirdday.com/PDF/expenses.pdf for those interested. What's noticable is that the longer we stayed out...the cheaper it was for us to cruise. Not because we didn't do boat maintenance, but because we got farther away from the culture of spend...spend...spend and started living the life of the locals.
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Old 25-02-2014, 12:26   #396
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

Fifteen years ago, in Mexico, long term sailors often discussed how the "new" breed of wealthy cruisers threw around too much money and irresponsibly drove up prices for everyone. The old guidebooks touch on this by saying that part of leaving a clean wake is to not pay (or bribe) too much, and some had lists of fair prices.

I don't know if this was ever true. It seems more likely that prices were increasing for other reasons.

Anyways, that's the only time I've seen "us vs them" in the cruising community, and I haven't seen it in a long time.
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Old 25-02-2014, 12:28   #397
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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As someone who has participated in these other threads with you (even on other forums) I can say that YOU have a very skewed, bizarre, and "chip on your shoulder" view of the actual discussions. Did a $500/month sailor steal your dink, scratch your varnish, or perhaps dump their pee bottle in your cornflakes? Most of your posts in the frugal threads are aimed at destroying the discussion, and your comments in others (like this one) seem written only to denigrate and somehow prove to the world that you are right.

YOU come across as a sad and bitter man Don. Perhaps instead of snarling and dragging everyone down who doesn't see the world as you demand, perhaps YOU should seek real help from actual people. YOU are clearly not finding the affirmation YOU so desperately desire here on online forums.

P.S. I apologize to the thread here. I'm enjoying and learning from the discussion as well. Thanks .
Right on Mike. Luckily Cruisers Forum has so many good posters that I can just bypass the knockers.

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Old 25-02-2014, 12:29   #398
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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Honey, that was a joke. I don't hate anyone.

I see you're a passive aggressive also.
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Old 25-02-2014, 12:36   #399
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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I see you're a passive aggressive also.
You say the sweetest things.
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Old 25-02-2014, 12:52   #400
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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You say the sweetest things.

Can't we all just get along?
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Old 25-02-2014, 13:00   #401
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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Na...the 1%-ers are here and don't actually bother to care how much per month other people cruise on....some of the "cheapest" cruisers I know were ultra-1%-ers.
I would point out one other thing from my experience.

In my line of work (alternative investments) a good part of my time is spent meeting with high net worth individuals. There is one thing that you figure out really quick. The majority of supposed rich people don't have nearly the amount of wealth that everyone around them thinks they do. "Average" people tend to have a very warped idea of how much "rich" people supposedly have. I get in front of people all the time who are supposed to be filthy rich and my contacts are saying things like, "this guy is easy worth $50-100 million". Most times they look the part; lots of toys, charter private jets to travel, huge home, etc... Then when I sit down with them it usually turns out that they are worth about $10 million, sometimes $20 million. Most of it is usually tied up in a few mediocre or bad investments and is completely inaccessible, like they invested in a new private golf course or something and their annual expenses to maintain the image are usually insane. Literally hemorrhaging cash.

On the other side are those who always surprise me. Those usually in their early to mid 50s. Some went to college and some didn't, but they worked really hard and from the very beginning avoided excess debt and invested as much as they could. Many aren't currently making any more than about $60-80K annual at their job, but by this point they've got a net worth of $1-3MM. House is usually paid off and a large chuck of their net worth is completely liquid. They never use any investment income for living expenses and always reinvest everything. Just the millionaire next door type people; engineers, manufacturing supervisors, and sometimes factory workers. That is the much more common circumstance, and nobody around them presumes them to be millionaires.

Then there is always that one person every so often (maybe 1 in 100 "rich people") who is talking to me about maybe investing a few hundred thousand in something aggressive. This guy usually drives an Audi or a Lexus, never a Bentley, Rolls, or Maserati. Typically wears jeans and a polo to the meeting. And then at some time during the meeting he mentions, "so I've got about $50MM in a bond account that I really think I could do better with. You wanna talk about that?" These are the ultra frugal ultra wealthy that you mentioned. They tend to enjoy the company of "normal" people.
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Old 25-02-2014, 13:09   #402
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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Bingo....most ultra budget cruisers don't have/want a laptop, the power to run it,
doesn't seem true as they manage to post on internet forums
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Old 25-02-2014, 13:22   #403
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

Agreed Sailorboy, in my experience they have a laptop, usually use opencpn, and the "free" pirated cm93 charts... Use free wifi where available etc etc
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Old 25-02-2014, 13:39   #404
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Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

This is my first entry in this discussion. In my view $5000 per month is a reasonable amount to budget for a family cruising the Med in a 40+ foot boat – not including capital costs for the boat and unscheduled repairs.

We took a gap year and spent 15 months cruising the Med from Venice south to Herzlia Israel, east to Antalya Turkey and as far west to Mallorca Spain and spent around $5,000 per month.

We had a family of four, ate on board, ate in restaurants, anchored out, paid cruising fees and visas, paid our boat and health insurance, paid to anchor in Croatia and Montenegro, stayed in marinas, used diesel fuel, propane, gas for the dinghy, paid for wireless internet sticks and mobile phones in every country, wintered in marinas, rented the occasional car, toured inland and generally walked or used public transit to get around. We also did routine maintenance of the boat including painting the bottom and replacing bits when they broke.

In the end we had a comfortable time – sailed more than 6,000 miles and didn’t really want for much – though our lives seemed much simpler than when at home. We saw a lot of great sights and sites, ate well, enjoyed wine and the local culture. We also got to know our kids really well and hope that experience will cement our relationships with them as they get older and head off to make lives of their own.

In the end the price of living on the boat is not materially different than living in our house in Canada. If you have a house and kids in a major Canadian city you’d be hard pressed to have a family of four live on $5,000 per month. Expecting to be able to live for free is likely more of a romantic notion than a realistic one.

My advice is to take what you spend in your current situation and then apply that to your new cruising life. If you can live on $500 per month on land then you’ll probably be happy on $500 a month on the water. Same goes for $5,000 and $50,000 per month ... everyone is different, there is not one single formula that will work for everyone – which is fine by me.
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Old 25-02-2014, 13:41   #405
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pirate Re: Cruising on $5,000 / Month

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... In my line of work (alternative investments) a good part of my time is spent meeting with high net worth individuals.
I used to use El Chapo Guzman for my "alternative" investments. It's difficult to get a meeting with him lately, tho.

I hang with a few big $ folks and I grew up with many of them. I'm from SoCal. They are just folks. It's really not about the money, it's about how you handle yourself. I annoyed Don earlier today which started the current little brushfire. I commented on the apparent helplessness of many so-called cruisers, and Don apparently took it as a comment on high budget folks. That wasn't my intent at all.

I'm reminded of chatting with a pal and whined about possibly spending $15k on a boat. My buddy replied, "Hell, I paid more than that for my steering vane." But he said it in a friendly way.

Guess ya had to be there.
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