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Old 27-10-2010, 12:00   #1
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Costs of a Larger Vessel - A Comparison

Trying to right size my boat choice financially and would like to see what the difference in costs are for say a 38 foot boat and a 50 foot boat. I am interested in things that cost by the foot, square foot or weight like:

1. Marina berths
2. Bottom Paint
3. Cruising Permits
4. Haul Outs and associated fees in a yard
5. Rigging Refits
6. New Sails
5. Anchors and Chains
etc.

Please add to the list since I am sure I am missing a lot. To get it started my Marina charges $8/ft/ month

38' = $304/ mo.
50'= $400/mo.

Also, if you know any on going discussions on this matter please add a link.


Thanks,
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Old 27-10-2010, 12:04   #2
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Did you check with your marina about the costs? My yard has different costs/foot in brackets of boat length.

Longer is generally wider.
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Old 27-10-2010, 13:01   #3
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Repairs go up as the square of the length!!!
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Old 27-10-2010, 13:01   #4
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We figure .05% to .02% per year for a new replacement of whatever you buy at whatever price you buy it.

Example: A 1990 Tartan 40 purchased for $80k has a new replacement equivalent that is the Tartan 41 for $500K. Your annual maintenance cost for either boat (new or old) is $2500~$10,000 per year of the new replacement ($500k).

Maybe you don't spend the .05 to .02% every year but you will spend it over several years. Some things can be deferred, some things can't.

The figures are only for maintenance (IE fixing or maintaining the boat). It does not include dockage, insurance, winter storage, beer or broads.....

We've averaged close to the .02% figure for the past 10 years but have been heavily refitting (new sails, engine, hull and deck paint, generator, instruments, some rigging,,,,). Our refit cost is falling dramatically now that we have caught up with most differed maintenance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob30 View Post
Trying to right size my boat choice financially and would like to see what the difference in costs are for say a 38 foot boat and a 50 foot boat. I am interested in things that cost by the foot, square foot or weight like:

1. Marina berths
2. Bottom Paint
3. Cruising Permits
4. Haul Outs and associated fees in a yard
5. Rigging Refits
6. New Sails
5. Anchors and Chains
etc.

Please add to the list since I am sure I am missing a lot. To get it started my Marina charges $8/ft/ month

38' = $304/ mo.
50'= $400/mo.

Also, if you know any on going discussions on this matter please add a link.


Thanks,
Jacob
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Old 29-10-2010, 12:48   #5
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The .02 cents is really close. I just did the calculation on my boat. double the boat will be aprox 4 times the cost.
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Old 29-10-2010, 13:43   #6
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At 54' marina fees for us have always been the same rate per foot per day as the smaller boats in the same marina. Most marinas in the US charge for LOA which means we pay for at least a 63' dock....here in Mexico they always charge for LOD so we get by paying for 54'.
New rigging and sails will be very expensive on a big boat when compared to a small boat but since ours was refitted before we purchased her I cannot give you a figure on that.
I can tell you that a 120 pound anchor will run you just short of 2K and our last haul out/bottom job ran approx. 3.5K.
Maybe someone with a small boat can chime in on some of there figures.
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Old 29-10-2010, 19:05   #7
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Hi,

Some thoughts:

1. Marina berths

- price NOT always by length, thus cost may or may NOT be linear (where we are the cost is LOA x B (!!!), at other times there may be 'bands',

2. Bottom Paint

- differs by square of the changed size (2 times longer = 4 times more paint),

4. Haul Outs and associated fees in a yard

- differ often by square,

5. Rigging Refits

- difference in rigging length but far more imporatantly in size (bigger blocks, winches, etc),

6. New Sails

- difference higher than by square (thicker canvas is more expensive),

I would add 'Systems' to your list. As the boats get bigger you not only need but very often will want bigger and more systems. A 30+ footer can be basic, but most 50+ footers I have been on had EVERYTHING and often doubled.

I will write another post below to split the length.

barnie
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Old 29-10-2010, 19:28   #8
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Last year I was managing a major project with a 52 ft boat involved in our local marina. This included berthing the boat, fixing her up, boatyard jobs, sailmakers. etc. The boat was in good shape but the owner wanted her to stay this good.

I live in the same marina and my boat is 26'. As you see my own boat is half the size of the bigger boat. My boat is also in relatively good condition. I also use the same boatyard, sailmakers and other facilities.

Now comparing the costs, we spent roughly 8 times more on the big boat project than we spend on our boat.

Some explanations here:
- time: more boatyard time and more boatyard workers necessary,
- materials: we had to use higher spec materials in equivalent applications,
- outsourcing: we had to use hired force to do things that can be done by the owner of a smaller boat,
- spares and replacements: the bigger boat had 12, 24, 110 and 220 Volt systems, turbo engine, electric winches, fridge and deep freezer, air-con, bow-thruster, hydraulic kicker, backstay and furlers.

I do not know if the 8x difference is representative of wider spectrum of boats or not, but since this is fresh data and collected on two different boats in the same environ I thought it might be of some use to you.

Hope this helps.

b.
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Old 29-10-2010, 19:50   #9
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For my own experience, it seems like there are essentially 'brackets' for boat size that go about like this:

28' and shorter
29'-37'
38'-50'
51'-70'
71' and longer

Maybe I don't have the same amount of experience as everyone else, but it seems like services, equipment and expertise are roughly segregated into these groups. Cost as a function of total materials and increased labor hours is strictly based on size, as others have said. But when it comes to rigging, hull maintenance, sail repair/design and electrical/mechanical maintenance it seems to me that those brackets represent certain cut-off points in what you can or can't find in availability at different ports.

For me, the biggest problem with having a big (65'), heavy (nearly 50tons) boat is the lack of availability for haulouts and expertise in repair of the various systems, or in finding replacement components for things like steering units or rigging. You can't walk into West Marine and get the right sized gear for a boat like this, most of the time.
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Old 29-10-2010, 19:58   #10
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On a smaller yacht, you can do most of the stuff yourself.

On a large yacht, you physically may not be able to do things yourself. Jobs are too big.

I can just barely carry my mainsail on Exit Only, and I have a 39 foot catamaran.

I reckon that I can do just about any job on Exit Only by myself or with the help of a friend using a few minutes of their time.

If you have a bazillion dollars, then it probably doesn't matter that you may not be able to do the jobs by yourself on a large yacht.
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Old 29-10-2010, 21:41   #11
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So basically a 38ft boat vs a 52ft boat is like a 3bed house vs a 6 bed house.... more expensive to maintain...... DUHHHH
Who'd a believed it....... I'm amazed
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Old 30-10-2010, 01:01   #12
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G'day, Mate. Coming up on 13 years now worth of data for a 53 footer. We have average $4,440 USD per year including all yard work, 3 new sails, removing all the old bottom paint, new barrier coat, repainting the mast and necessary rigging work and keeping all the systems in top working order. We try to do most of the work ouselves when possible. The boat was in great condition when we bought her and she is in better shape now.

We have average $2,180 USD (averaging about 5 months a year) in marna charges per year, including buying and maintaining a 4 ton mooring.

No question that a larger boat is generally going to mean higher yearly operating costs. The key is finding a good, quality vessel that has been well maintained and you will be paid back down the road if you are going to be living the lifestyle for an extended period of time. The future owner of this boat will also be rewarded.

Based on Joli's analysis above, it looks like we've done pretty well. Cheers.
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Old 30-10-2010, 09:05   #13
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I agree with Matauwhi above: a well maintained boat is the way to go. Also, some boats are maintenance-less while others are high maintenance. E.g. a lot of external wood is high maintenance. Etc..

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Old 30-10-2010, 09:11   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
E.g. a lot of external wood is high maintenance. Etc..

b.
A lot of internal wood falling off is high maintenance....

If it was easier to sell a boat quickly and without losing much it would be cool to go through a whole series of boats till the 'right' one.

What else is high mainteneance....?

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Old 30-10-2010, 09:50   #15
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I went from a 41' to a 46' boat, both of which I purchased new from the same manufacturer, eight years apart. The 41' boat displaced 20,000 lbs, and the 46' displaced 30,000. Both boats had similar SA/D ratios. However, a 12% increase in LOA yielded a 50% increase in displacement. In other words, you can't just look at the 5' increase in length and forget about the exponential increase in everything else. Mechanical systems that would work on the 41 footer, such as wind vane steering, would no longer work on the 46 footer. The type of bilge pumps that I used on the 41 footer were hopelessly inadequate for the 46 footer. The cost of a winch for the new boat was twice that of the winches for the old boat. The cost of a suit of sails when you go from 800 square feet of sail area to 1,000 square feet is staggering. You're not just paying for an extra 200 square feet of cloth, you're paying for a much sturdier build. Honestly, if you're thinking about any boat over 45', the first thing you should do is go down to your local sail loft and ask whether you can try to lift up the mainsail for a boat the size you're thinking about purchasing. (Of course, in this day and age they may not even let you try for fear that you'll hurt yourself in the process.)

The total cost of the 46', fully commissioned, represented a 65% increase over the 41'. That extra 5' cost me about around $25,000 per foot. (Neither boat had bow thrusters, AC or a diesel generator. Both boats had diesel furnace systems, similar furling systems and an electric windlass. The larger boat had a turbo diesel while the smaller had a normally aspirated engine, but this was because the larger engines won't meet air quality standards without being turbo. I wanted a non-turbo diesel, but was told that it wasn't possible on a boat this size.)

One other thing to think about is that once you get to a certain size, your selection of marina slips becomes limited. If you have a 46' boat in this area, you're going to have to put it in a 50' slip, and that's going to cost around $800 per month. If you have a 52' boat, you're going to have to put it into a 60' slip, and that's going to run $1,000 per month. Once you get over 60', few marinas will even talk to you, and you'd better expect to be on an end tie for a very long time while you spend years on a wait list hoping for an actual slip.
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