Cost to Cruise with Family of Four

[mikeod]

Originally Posted by bennenrkc

A64: Thanks for the clarification, I should have used a different term for maintenance, perhaps major repairs. I am wondering if we shouldn't plan on another year of working or 2 to further build up a big ticket repair fund as well. I would really rather never touch the principal.

I understand the flippant response however, the fear seems to take hold with that response. I would like to think we can continue to live within a budget and if it was just my wife and I we would have no problems however, I am jumping off the deepend with little means to come back to our current positions/state of life if we can't keep the budget and need to be able to support 2 young girls to make sure they have a better way of life that we have. I need to continue to research means to assist with staying within the budget.

Mikeod: How long were you gone for each time, does the figure you use take into account the maintenance or do you use the periods you are not cruising to cover those expenses?

Each time was prob 9mnths. thats a rough average some months were more some were less. Stocking up on groceries we would spend a lot in a few weeks then spend very little the next few months. We were lucky with no major maint issues. But all other maint was done as needed. We spent a lot initialy for upgrades like solar and frig etc but once set up well budget was pretty much food, fuel and reg maint

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by bennenrkc

A64: Thanks for the clarification, I should have used a different term for maintenance, perhaps major repairs. I am wondering if we shouldn't plan on another year of working or 2 to further build up a big ticket repair fund as well.

OK as Ken said, I am not a real cruiser myself, I have not left yet, but I have made my living maintaining rather complex machines, and as a helicopter pilot I am a pessimist, so I prepare for the worst.
Your if I understanding it, planning on Retiring at 30ish? If so then I would try to ensure that my money plans were adjusted for inflation, cause hopefully your not even near half your lifetime, and I myself just to sleep soundly at night, I'd want a large UH-OH fund.
Now many people do I believe successfully cruise on a thread so to speak, but its my opinion that many cruises end with just one big ticket expense.
Has to be a reason there are so many boats sitting in fields of dreams, I suspect often its financial.

If your in a position so that you could go back to work without too much hassle, then your need for a larger maintenance fund is diminished.

Just my opinion, to be truthful I would have dreamed about retiring in my 30's, but I would have gone nuts if I did, at that time in my life I spent lots of money changing hobbies and doing way different things. In my 30's I would have loved cruising for a year or two, then I think I would have to do something different

[bennenrkc]

A64: You have been extremely helpful, and very capable of reading between the lines of my written word. Yes, I have an fairly reasonable sized fund to fall back on for the uh-oh moments. You are also correct that while this could be a retirement this likely will be sort of a sabbatical vs retirement. We love to travel but the next hopefully 60 years will have a lot of interesting things to still explore as well. My family has a business (ok after writing this and rereading it a farming operation ) that none of my siblings or I were allowed to pursue in part because my parent's didn't want us to think we were pigeon holed into a specific career path, however in 10 years when my father intends to retire, depending on where I am at in life it is very likely that will take that over. Regardless, the goal/limitations that I try to set for my self would never be to have to touch the principal, part of the underlying business strategy I was raised with/how we have done fairly well in life. So while we could blow the entire fund and have no cares for 10 years, I have not spent the last 15 years working to get to the point of having a fund to just blow it, because I hope to have it to help support the next 60 years.

I think the general response here has been that my plan is doable if we can live cheap enough, follow a budget, go slow, and try to keep our boat as economical as possible. With the family business if necessary I could come back and be hired as any other employee to help cover the short fall in budget if necessary. (something we had considered doing annually during the peak season anyway to assist with business/ give our girls a sense of connection to the business and the work ethic that comes from it as well as the ability to see family during that period).

This thread has been extremely helpful to me not only for the assurance/cautions given but also the links of additional places to go searching for more info.

The next questions for me/a person in my posisitioon to look at should be:
- Greenhorn mistakes and how to avoid them
- Health insurance costs
- ? help point me into some additional topics that you wish somebody would have pointed you towards?
-

[akprb]

Originally Posted by bennenrkc

A64. correct
Akprb. Is that on sv third days blog you are referencing?

sailingohana blog :-)

[akprb]

Additional topics :-)

First thought is wait to do a ton of work on the boat. We took a full season in the Bahamas just cruising and living and seeing what Ohana needed before heading back to Florida and adding all. It was much less than one might have thought and we really got to know the boat before adding a bunch of stuff to it.

As to budget again know that you will return one day and get back to doing something. These years with your girls are precious and priceless. I'm not advocating irresponsibility, just the knowledge that this is an investment of sorts and the future will work itself out.

Next, my experience has been that like everything in life cruising has a season. Prior to our decade away we would sail 3 months, work 3 months and near the end of each period whatever we were doing began to wear thin. It was the contrasts that were interesting. Months in the Caribbean, Summer in Alaska, RV Trips in between. How did we afford it? Real Estate and partnering up with other investors to watch each others properties. Tim Ferris in the "four hour work week" is worth a read. We did it kind of by accident.

Today we are back to the on/off model. Small simple boat on the east coast, business on the west. Girls are in college and finishing High School now. They love the contrast as well, think we've ruined them for "normal".

Health Care? Back in "the day" (which wasn't too long ago) we carried just catastrophic coverage with Blue Cross and had a "flight policy" with someone and just paid for what we needed in various countries. We had the usual things and went to clinics here and there and just paid cash. Even a broken arm is not that expensive at the end of the day. Cancer is what you are talking about now and meeting the stupid law (another story). I wouldn't stress to much about it. That being said our docs gave us a LOT of advice and scripts for a medical kit and it was COMPREHENSIVE. There was a lot we just carried and did ourselves.

Will be back on boat October 7th in Florida if anyone wants to get together for a coffee!!! Have a great day :-)

[bennenrkc]

Originally Posted by akprb

sailingohana blog :-)

Sorry when I use tapatalk, I don't see the signature script. Logged in online today to read this became clear as day. I missed my oldest grow from a 9 month old to a year and a half old, and it is probably one of my greatest regrets todate, so your blog post hits home, hard.

Thank you.

[a64pilot]

Health care is tough, I think. Truth is I'm retired military so that is my health care so I am not really experienced with the issue, although I have no idea how useful it will be to me overseas? I expect to just pay for regular care when overseas.
But, in your 30's your hopefully healthy, only issue I think is what do you do if you come down with something really expensive, like Cancer? But, I'd bet most health care plans may not cover you very well then either?
Is the family business big enough so that you could get coverage that way?

[Kenomac]

With several cruising families we've met who eventually quit after a year or so, there's a high cost associated with the frustration involved in home schooling. Personally, I like the idea, but it doesn't seem to work very well with some kid/parent combinations. You might want to explore this before cashing everything in and buying the boat.

Talk to our friend Kim Brown from Sailingbrittican.com for advice.

[barnakiel]

Home schooling seems to work on the assumption that parents are smarter than their kids. I am not sure where this assumption comes from.

Look around, very many, if not most, people have nil knowledge of mathematics, physics, biology or languages.

Also, kids are humans and humans are said to be social animals. If you want your kids to do well socially-wise, break them in early on.

b.

[bennenrkc]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Also, kids are humans and humans are said to be social animals. If you want your kids to do well socially-wise, break them in early on.

b.

Barnakiel: Could explain this for me please?

My wife and I have seen several homeschool children that didn't adapt or gain the social skills necessary for successful integration into modern society. This is probably our second biggest fear about cruising, is we don't want them to become so isolated as to be the social outcast because they don't have the skills to interact. We hope to find another cruising family or two and hopefully be able to somewhat align are travels with them. Reading Voyaging with Kids in part by the owner of Totem, she seemed to indicate that this was possible. We had actually hoped that we would be able to find a location somewhere where we could stay for a semester and enroll them into school not only for our ability to measure our success in keeping them at or above the grade level they are supposed to be but to also give them some social exposure. We really liked that the Totem children were in school in Australia for a semester.

[SF Bay Dude]

How old are your girls? When they hit teenage years they will eat lots of food. 10 year olds not so much. $3600…? Luxury. Get proper ground tackle and anchor out. Cook your own meals. Time is now your commodity. Also, the old adage is very true "You spend what you make/have"

If you say your budget is $3600, you'll probably spend $3600. How do you balance things? I think a mix of secluded anchorages and cultured experiences will round it out. If you are on the east coast of the states, there is so much history, museums, cultural sites to explore.

For reference, I got away with $350/mo in 2003/4 on my 26ft boat. Yeah, I was solo and a dude, but I made pizzas, bread, crepes, steaks… I ate very well (actually gained weight), even though I was surfing and diving every day. I got to know Puerto Vallarta very well and made some great friends + have some great stories.

Again, $3600… You will live well.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by bennenrkc

Barnakiel: Could explain this for me please?

My wife and I have seen several homeschool children that didn't adapt or gain the social skills necessary for successful integration into modern society. This is probably our second biggest fear about cruising, is we don't want them to become so isolated as to be the social outcast because they don't have the skills to interact. We hope to find another cruising family or two and hopefully be able to somewhat align are travels with them. Reading Voyaging with Kids in part by the owner of Totem, she seemed to indicate that this was possible. We had actually hoped that we would be able to find a location somewhere where we could stay for a semester and enroll them into school not only for our ability to measure our success in keeping them at or above the grade level they are supposed to be but to also give them some social exposure. We really liked that the Totem children were in school in Australia for a semester.

We learn how to sail by sailing. We learn social interaction by interacting. Etc.

Peer group interactions are not passed from father to son. Much of our adult life social interaction is peer group interaction. Other than special cases of handicaped children, who may have special needs in this respect, kids are growing up strongest (develop best social interacting skills) when they grow up in a group of peers.

Adults are NO SUBSTITUTE for children's own company.

I can easily imagine that less developed areas of Australia or any other country may be naturally deficient in this respect - farms that are miles apart are indeed like sailing boats in this respect. Isolated.

It is just one of many theories, and not mine either.

Looking at children growing up in say Spain (plenty of peer group interaction) and say Sweden (somewhat less peer group interaction) I would bet some money on this theory. It is clear to the naked eye social interactions among adults in Spain are far more relaxed, there is more solidarity and more tolerance. People here tend to support each other rather than avoid each other.

I think this is an asset in the societies of tomorrow that seem bound to be more numerous, more dense and so more reliant on our social skills.

I would not home school my kids if there existed a regular and easily available alternative to have them growing up among their peers.

As I said, this is not a religion of mine. I have gathered most of my social thinking from observation and from conversations with my partner (who is a pro in the field of education) rather than from actual exposure to the real world of home schooling. I may be wrong and by a large margin too.

b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by bennenrkc

(...)

We had actually hoped that we would be able to find a location somewhere where we could stay for a semester and enroll them into school ...

(...)

Please bear with me. I have also this after though. It may well be a silly thought, not worth much attention. A drift, too.

When you stop in a place for a semester and then you go to another place (and, I imagine, then on, to yet another place), what can this situation teach a young and developing brain?

Well, I think this will teach the young person that relationships are temporal, that attachments hurt, that they have no control over their life. It will not be theirs decision to move on but it will be their pain to say bye to friends and loved ones.

Or do we assume kids' friendships and loves are 'lesser'?

When we grow a young tree we do not move it from one corner of the garden to another with every semester. Analogies can be misleading. But also the false ones deserve inspection prior to hypothetical rejection.

Again. This is not my theory, nor my religion. Only an idea that I think is well worth further reading, study, observation and consideration.

Cheers,
b.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Looking at children growing up in say Spain (plenty of peer group interaction) and say Sweden (somewhat less peer group interaction) I would bet some money on this theory. It is clear to the naked eye social interactions among adults in Spain are far more relaxed, there is more solidarity and more tolerance. People here tend to support each other rather than avoid each other.

b.

Did you forget about the Spanish civil war that took place not so long ago?

[Rising Tide]

[QUOTE=bennenrkc;2218903]Dipping into it for maintenence or for living? The general idea behind the 3% is that most financial professionals seem to recommend a 4% withdrawal rate if you want your finances to out live you. Realizing that number relates to individuals around 55+ I thought a 3% would be better and actually have a chance of being there when I do retire assuming we would be working when kids returned to high school. Are my assumptions somewhat right?

You are correct.

Could I move to a 4% withdrawal rate? Possible, but percentage of success declines substantially.