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Old 09-05-2008, 00:33   #46
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Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
Well at least he is not as bad as one guy I know. He believes in all sorts of conspiracy theories and he flawed me completely last week, when he tried telling us that the Vapour trails from Jets are really chemicals that the Government is spraying over us all for mind control. I was about to laugh my arse off when I suddenly realised he was dead serious.
I LOVE those people! The stranger they get the more entertaining they are. I'll even cook up stuff like that to see who bites.

On a more serious note, try national buy nothing day, or Earthday. You are more like to gain some traction on it.

Personally I don't think it will work because the advertising industry is controlled by a group of aliens from Sirius who are in cahoots the exiles from Atlantis and the Zionists ....
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:34   #47
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who are in cahoots the exiles from Atlantis and the Zionists ....
Bit of thread drift, but I know where Atlantis is - I would share, but Gord wants to keep this boaty
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:07   #48
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Bit of thread drift, but I know where Atlantis is - I would share, but Gord wants to keep this boaty

LOL!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-05-2008, 13:00   #49
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Fuel at $1.50

So were penalizing full size trucks now, unless they are reg. to companies ? Dont we have enough red tape to deal with ? Chuck the
problem is with the speculators and maybe shareholders who want a return on there investment, but then why not. Granted i am new here
so i certainly dont want to peev anyone off. Tks T
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Old 09-05-2008, 13:57   #50
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OK Folks, the topic should still be related to boating. Please keep it that way or we will assume the thread has done it's dash and close it.
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Old 16-05-2008, 17:44   #51
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Cool.
Build the first one in downtown LA.
That wouldn't work.

... folks in L.A. don't trust air they can't see.
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Old 18-05-2008, 08:10   #52
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Went out for my first sail of this season on Lake Lanier, (yes I am land locked), I noticed that there were hardly any stink pots ( motor boats) out on the lake and most of them sitting at the docks. I think I saw a few captains with envy in their eyes and wiping tears.
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Old 19-05-2008, 21:17   #53
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I think an attitude adjustment is what is needed both on land and on the water. It seems for some that sailing is just as much motoring from place to place as sailing. If boat speed drops below 3 knots turn on the motor. Or if the wind is not from the "right" direction turn on the motor. Engines seem to get bigger and bigger,"how big is the engine" is the main question. Larger than it needs to be is my reply. Are we sailors or a bunch of "Casper Milk Toasts" who can't be inconvenienced in the slightest? I take a little comfort from the fact that my boat has a very efficient hull form for light air sailing and that it can easily pushed along by a small engine when needed. 500 miles at 5-6 knots on my small 25 gallon tank is not to bad. Maybe we should be on the cusp of a worldwide resurgance in the cruising trimaran. I can have my little fantasy can't I. Speedboats and large motorboats are notorious gas guzzlers so it will be interesting in the "Land of 10,000 Lakes" this summer to see if they spend more time at the dock.

I live in a large city and the amount of SUV/large pickup type vehicles just amazes me. From the look of many of these they have never hauled anything substantial and they seem to be some type of "compensation" factor. We get alot of snow here but I can recall only a few days in the last 15 years when I could not get around the city in my minivan or front wheel drive car. Snowstorms are one of the big salesman lines here, what a joke. They can cause accidents at intersections because they block sight lines. One reason why I try to avoid driving my motorcycle on city streets. I say slap a tax surcharge on them and give business, contractors, large families, and others who can show a work need an exemption. Then use the money to help fund the development of electric/fuel efficient technologies. Sorry, wanting to tow a large boat around is not a good enough reason. This from someone who owns a trailer boat though I can get by with a midsize vehicle. I know some will always find loopholes and the car companies will scream bloody murder. I doubt the government would have the courage to do something like this.

Even though we are paying close to $4.00 a gallon here in the U.S. we are not paying at the pump for the real cost of our oil addiction. The enviromental damage of the whole extraction/refining/consumption process is not included. The cost of "military adventures" to control access to oil is not factored in. What is especially galling is the fact that a portion of the money spend on middle east oil finds it"s way into terrorist/militia hands and also funds extremist madrasa type schools in certain countries. Talk about "blowback". Try factor that cost in.

Think globally, act locally.
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Old 20-05-2008, 11:49   #54
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" Talk about "blowback". Try factor that cost in." Ah, but oil isn't the issue there. Oil, and oil wars, are all only a part of the problem you get when the uninformed, uneducated, and everyone else are given a vote. Which they have no idea what to do with.

Remember that the Founding Fathers chose a rather crude and unfair (but effective given the time) way to have only 20% of the population, generally successful landowners and merchants with standing in their commmunities and that usually meant SOME kind of intelligence if not awareness of business issues. I wouldn't use the same criteria today--but they would have been AGHAST at the idea of letting every moron into a voting booth to run the country.

Sadly, compulsory [mis]education hasn't fixed that. You can inform, you can educate, but so far PT Barnum has never been proven wrong about the rubes.

Ask any geologist--they've known this was coming and the only debate since the 1950's has been exactly WHEN it would come. Why nothing has been done about it goes back at least to the "crisis" of the 70's, and the continued failure of our government (and the voters) to fund any alternatives and solutions. There's plenty of blame to go around, and sadly our system is hard-coded to encourage and reward more of it.
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Old 21-05-2008, 00:18   #55
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[quote=hellosailor;
" Talk about "blowback". Try factor that cost in." Ah, but oil isn't the issue there. Oil, and oil wars, are all only a part of the problem you get when the uninformed, uneducated, and everyone else are given a vote. Which they have no idea what to do with

I have to agree with you on this one. We have a pretty evenly divided electorate so it always comes down to the 10-15 percent of those who are undecided till the last minute. These people are generally not paying attention and are ignorant and uniformed about the issues facing the country. How can you be undecided in the last few weeks of the process? These are the ones that swing it one way or the other based on some negative TV ad or some distracting issue like flag pins, who is more patriotic, or who smoked pot 30 years ago. The list is endless. Maybe a test on the Constitution, basic function of the government and world affairs is what is need in order to vote. The numbskulls who don't pass can just go back to watching American Idol or Access Hollywood.

Just to keep it boating related, the water is warming up here in the North Country and I may get the daysailor out this weekend.
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Old 21-05-2008, 13:41   #56
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Ah, fuel wars. It's all finally starting to catch up with us. From experience, we have a shop that is ~ 3 hours drive away. That means that we go the shop every week or so and do the work while we're there. Not only is it inconvenient to drive back and forth all the time but now that it’s almost $200 CND round trip we've had to make some adjustments. We recently outfitted the shop with living quarters so that we can minimize the amount of driving and just stay there an extra few days. We moved the shop out east because of the increasingly absurd property taxes that are all around the Greater Toronto Area. So now it's not only unaffordable to do business in the city but it's unaffordable to leave!

As to keeping this boating related; we recently asked a power boating friend to join us in the Thousand Islands this summer out in Eastern Lake Ontario. If you don't know, the Thousand Islands are really the crown jewels of Lake Ontario which is, in my opinion, a less than spectacular cruising destination (I grew up in Georgian Bay and will always hold that body of water, her shores and islands as my one true example of Peace and Beauty on earth). His response was that there was no way that he could afford the roughly 800 km round trip because it would cost an amazing $4000 each way!! Granted that this is one of those power boats that planes when clearly, it shouldn’t be planing. But still, this is going to have a serious impact on the entire boating industry. High fuel costs are just another nail in the coffin for boating enthusiasts in North America that started in the late ‘80s with the Luxury tax.

Fuel prices will go down, like they did after the ‘70s oil crisis because this is all planned out by people who are much smarter and have a lot more money than many of us combined. Demand increases and prices follow; ‘new technology’ (ß- insert solar, wind, etc.) begins to come online and starts to offer alternatives; oil prices plummet in response and all the investment in alternatives is thrown out the window and everyone jumps back on the cheap gas bandwagon; the cycle begins for another generation. A real life conspiracy all played out at the expense of the consumer. Some conspiracies are true, after all it only takes 3 people colluding to make a conspiracy and I think we all know that there are more than 3 guys at the top pulling the strings.

Sorry to go off on a few tangents but we in North America are about to enter a new era of woes and despair. Welcome to the ‘New World’.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:53   #57
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OK, It is time for me to confess. The reason I made the now much discussed $1.50 fuel price post had nothing to to do with a boycott of fuel companies. The wife and I were discussing how much we need to change our cruising budget this time around to account for the increase in fuel prices. During that discussion we got around to the reason we were in this fix and how easily people accept the current situation. I stated that our society today is populated by lazy, apathetic people that are no longer interested in making an effort to improve there own plight. She in turn argued that I was too pessimistic and should have more faith in my fellow man. So the plan was to put out a simple action that may or may not help but was relatively easy to execute. She insisted that the response would be a positive one and many would think it to be a good idea. I felt the response would be, it can't be done, it won't work, it won't make any difference, and you don't know what you are talking about. Well, I guess I was right again since that was pretty much the response from just about everybody. So many thanks to all for helping out in our little experiment and I hope you won't think less of me but it did develop into quite a discussion.


Now here are a few more thoughts I would like to put out there to see what you think. If everyone in the US or any other country took a "day off", and I mean stay home , drink beer, watch the game on TV, play with the kids, just anything but get in your car. Don't drive or buy gas or go to the store, just take the day off and stay home. On that single day what affect would that have on the fuel reserves and how would that affect the price. Next we need to get rid of the gas guzzlers. So the license and yearly renewal fees on SUVs, Hummers, full size pick-ups that are not registered to a company, would be equal to the current value of the vehicle. Take that money as collected and reduce the taxes on gas and diesel. The vehicles that get 35 MPH or better would be free for yearly registration or perhaps $1.00. Most of the gas guzzlers would go away quickly and we would reduce consumption which would reduce prices. OK, what do you think about those suggestions?
Fuel prices ijn North America are not coming down. Ever. And niether will E-85 because as soon as they get everyone using it, the prices will go up also.

But the main reason is the majority of the world's oil is supplied by Russia not the Middle East.

There is now a "market" as there is more competition for it as the rest of the world opens up.

In other words, if "we" (The U.S. and Canada) DID stop using it, they'd say "Good, we'll just sell it elsewhere."

Point blank simple. That's the situation and it is only just getting started.

Also, as far as using less, the State governments are already feeling the pinch from less revenue due to fuel tax and are already looking at raising licensing fee, property taxes and tracking your driving by the mile and charging you in order to make up the difference.

So, if we don't pay at the pumps, we will pay elsewhere if they get their way. (and they usually do)
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:00   #58
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Fuel prices are set not by Arabs, Venezuelans, Americans or Canadians......the producers

They are set by speculators....gamblers.....
an interesting article for you:
*The Great Oil Swindle: How much did the Fed really know?*********************** by Mike Whitney : Information Clearing House - ICH
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:22   #59
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Pretty cool read.
The more I learn the more I want to take all my cash and get some boat and just use the anchor. That or stake out my overpass before the rush.
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Old 08-06-2008, 14:53   #60
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I live as much off the grid as possible, I do not drive a car, have no investments, no assests. I believe I am leaving a very small footprint, does that mean that I am not part of the problem?
If you are lucky you burned up most of your personal share of oil long ago and added far more carbon to the atmosphere than most people do globally in two lifetimes and now thank your lucky stars. It's time to kick back and laugh at the idiots paying high fuel costs. In an age where you can exchange money to lower your carbon foot print so you can be better than other people you may be suffering the ultimate indignity of being honest about it. That can't be good for the illusion. A positive attitude can overcome the side effects of honesty if you try!

When all else fails rerwrite the scorecard! It clearly is someone elses fault. We now seek to find them and take their money. It always begs the question of who actually gets the money? Even Robin Hood kept a little. I'm willing to help if you can make the illusion last. I just hate when I figure out the scam before the movie ends.

It's too bad we can't fix the whole world. It seems we are basically limited to boats. I would not feel so bad. We all really need something else to do from time to time and I'm up for boatimg.
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