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Old 01-10-2011, 05:12   #16
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

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Would the Ericson the best compromise?
The compromise to what?
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:21   #17
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

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The compromise to what?
The compromise between an inexpensive boat to learn on, and a more expensive boat which is closer to what we want to eventually live on, but which puts a bigger strain on the kitty.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:47   #18
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

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Unfortunately, the golden job wouldn’t follow me to the coast, so I’m stuck in Kansas for a while. While my personal inclination is to have fun with the challenge of a sailing a leaky small boat and enjoy the low financial risk of that, my wife thought the 37-footer we chartered was small, and ultimately sees herself in a 50-footer.
It depends on your long term goals and plans.

If the boat is only playing the role of keeping you on the water while you save up for the 50fter then go with the most economical one that achieves that goal. That translates into the smallest that you can see yourself sailing.

However, if you see yourself using that boat for a number of years (5 or more) then go for the biggest boat that you can afford that will match your sailing area (I don't know Lake Perry but on the map it looks a bit small for a 40fter and maybe too small for 30).

Remember the larger the boat, the more it costs. Not just purchase price but care and upkeep. In fact, the ongoing fees to keep a boat (in that price range) can easily double the price of the boat over a number of years (depending on what you do and where you keep it).

A 22ft trailer sailor costs very little to keep it at a marina. For example, 22ft is $1245 at Lake Perry Yacht & Marina) but 34ft is $2100 (which is a lot cheaper than what I pay BTW!). Also, there is maintenance and upgrades which gets more expensive as the boat increases in size and complexity.

I do agree in principal with the premise of the "The Cruising Life" which is to put a plan in place and minimize your expenses to achieve the plan. Were I differ is on his premise not to own or charter a boat (and on his view of galley sinks that I think is dumb ).

The problem with golden jobs is that they come with golden handcuffs and you may find yourself staying longer than you are currently thinking. That in itself is not bad, but I would recommend on planing for that contingency.

BTW, chartering someone else's boat (as opposed to buying a boat and placing it in charter) could be an expensive but worth while part of your plan. On the other hand, placing your boat in charter has hidden costs such as accelerated depreciation and is a risky way to buy a boat IMO.

For me, I have calculated that for what I spend on marina, maintenance, upgrades and loan and interest payments on my boat I could rent a charter for 3 or more weeks a year (which is what I typically use it) and get a shiny new boat instead of an old leaky one. Theoretically, at some point, my boat will be paid off but at that point it will be old and not worth much.
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:21   #19
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

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The compromise between an inexpensive boat to learn on, and a more expensive boat which is closer to what we want to eventually live on, but which puts a bigger strain on the kitty.
I went thugh this when I got my first boat, a Cal-39. Not a small boat but not what I thought we really wanted. Two years later I moved to my current boat and after a year don't any regrets on it.

It would have been less costly to get the boat we wanted to start with. Probably was a $10,000 lesson.

The real trick to be able to know what you really want. If you do get it to start with!
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:41   #20
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I gotta agree with a couple of the posters here . We joined a sailing club and spent part of the summer learning to sail on small 22ft santana and a small cal with outboards . Beyond the first couple of outings , I truly did not enjoy sailing these things.......tiller in a tiny cockpit , trying to start a cranky lil outboard with your face smashed against the rear stay , club boats that have used up hardware and things that don't work.......if I had to spend years doing this , sure the dream and hobby might have turned into a motorhome dream . While we did learn the basics , I learned a heck of a lot more by crewing on other boats , that were closer to what we ended up buying . To each his own I guess , but I can't even compare the experience off sailing our 44 foot islander offshore , to sailing the lil club boats on the columbia river.......we bought the boat we wanted , and learned to sail it .
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Old 03-10-2011, 14:40   #21
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

Ski Nebraska
Sail Kansas
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Old 03-10-2011, 15:29   #22
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

What about checking out the Great Lakes?

They're a bit of a drive from where you are, but should be doable on a weekend trip. Just looking round should scratch the itch for a while, and you could bribe feed your SO's with nice food and accommodation.

Looks like there are a few yacht type places there that may do charters or whatever.

Lake Perry looks like you'd be blown out of the water by ski boats on any half decent weekend.
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Old 03-10-2011, 16:01   #23
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

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I went thugh this when I got my first boat, a Cal-39. Not a small boat but not what I thought we really wanted. Two years later I moved to my current boat and after a year don't any regrets on it.

It would have been less costly to get the boat we wanted to start with. Probably was a $10,000 lesson.

The real trick to be able to know what you really want. If you do get it to start with!
I'd definitely go with the boat we wanted, if we could get it in the place we wanted. A mid-western lake is already a big comprimise.

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What about checking out the Great Lakes?

They're a bit of a drive from where you are, but should be doable on a weekend trip. Just looking round should scratch the itch for a while, and you could bribe feed your SO's with nice food and accommodation.

Looks like there are a few yacht type places there that may do charters or whatever.

Lake Perry looks like you'd be blown out of the water by ski boats on any half decent weekend.
We'd be looking at a 9-hour drive to Chicago or Milwaukee--I don't think that's close enough for what you're talking about. What are SO's? From what I can tell, ski boats don't like Perry that much--too windy for them.

edit to add: significant others, right? The wife is on-board with boating as long as its nice. The offspring just don't get it.
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Old 03-10-2011, 16:05   #24
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

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I gotta agree with a couple of the posters here . We joined a sailing club and spent part of the summer learning to sail on small 22ft santana and a small cal with outboards . Beyond the first couple of outings , I truly did not enjoy sailing these things.......tiller in a tiny cockpit , trying to start a cranky lil outboard with your face smashed against the rear stay , club boats that have used up hardware and things that don't work.......if I had to spend years doing this , sure the dream and hobby might have turned into a motorhome dream . While we did learn the basics , I learned a heck of a lot more by crewing on other boats , that were closer to what we ended up buying . To each his own I guess , but I can't even compare the experience off sailing our 44 foot islander offshore , to sailing the lil club boats on the columbia river.......we bought the boat we wanted , and learned to sail it .
Excellent point--crewing might be the best way to go--save some money, have more fun, and have a better experience along the way. Thanks!
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Old 03-10-2011, 16:20   #25
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

Easy answer. Go to sailopo.com. If you are serious about cruising you can get hands on experience and in many cases the only cost is a plane ticket. Sail with Hank to Bermuda on Advocation, his 47 Swan and then pick and chose. Great organization.
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Old 03-10-2011, 19:00   #26
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

Your wife is right if you don't have to pay for it or pay to repair it or pay to dock it or don't want to explore the shallow part of the world or are willing to quit early each day so you can find a good spot to anchor that is not to crounded (only to find that later in the day you are surounded by fools who don't know how to anchor but decide to croud in anyway) or want to sail some small lakes where the water is so clear you can think you can drink it. The point is a big boat has a lot of limitations. One of wick is there or tons of places you can't go.

The thing about wives and girl friends is it is pretty difficult to have more than one at a time but rarely do I have only one saiing vessel. Right now I have 4 with 3 in the water. One is only 9 ft and folds up and can travel in a a small trunk. One of my favorite sailing trips was with a 13ft that weighed less than 350 pounds ready to sail. I would bet I can find water within an hour or two of most parts of Kansas that would make a fine weekend retreat. When I lived on a small lake in Illinois I kept that 13ft on davits on my little dock. Eventually I realized my trailer/sailor was sitting in the drive and rarely used so I found a lake 50 miles or so with a couple of marinas and rented a slip. Changed the world. I Had a lot. A great job/business that was both fun and making a nice living and a great sailing club with pot lucks and a good racing schedual , pleasant weekend resturants. 5 pm or so Fri night saw us heading out for a min vacation that lasted till sometime Sunday.

On the Adriatic last year near Croatia I had the fun of watching an inflatatable cat under sail bounce along to windward keeping up with my Cat under power at 6.5 knots for all afternoon.

The point is - for me at least - wind in the sail is wind in the sail no mater if the boat is little boat or a big (mono, Cat or Tri) (wet or Dry). Get a boat and find some water to play in. Tell us where in Kansas you are and we will find you some opportunities.

Cheers.
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Old 03-10-2011, 19:21   #27
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

You need sailing time. For your local waters It sounds like you need a smaller boat. 30 ft max. Dont pay too much. 28-30 will feel more like a real cruising experience. 22 ft will be good sailing experience but quite different than a bigger boat. Stick where you are and make your money. Been there done that and sometimes wish I had stuck for 3-5 more years. That's a lot of money!
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:27   #28
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

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Easy answer. Go to sailopo.com. If you are serious about cruising you can get hands on experience and in many cases the only cost is a plane ticket. Sail with Hank to Bermuda on Advocation, his 47 Swan and then pick and chose. Great organization.
Interesting link--I think I'll register. Thanks!

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The point is - for me at least - wind in the sail is wind in the sail no mater if the boat is little boat or a big (mono, Cat or Tri) (wet or Dry). Get a boat and find some water to play in. Tell us where in Kansas you are and we will find you some opportunities.

Cheers.
Kansas City. Two excellent possibilities are Perry Lake and Stockton Lake. According to midwestsailing.com, they are the number 2 and number 1 sailing lakes in the midwest, respectively. Perry is about an hour a way, and Stockton is maybe 2.5--doable, but probably on the margin the bigger lake isn't worth the longer drive.

Putting a boat on a slip seems to be the key. Thanks for the encouragement!

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You need sailing time. For your local waters It sounds like you need a smaller boat. 30 ft max. Dont pay too much. 28-30 will feel more like a real cruising experience. 22 ft will be good sailing experience but quite different than a bigger boat. Stick where you are and make your money. Been there done that and sometimes wish I had stuck for 3-5 more years. That's a lot of money!
Great advice--my decision is definitely gravitating towards this plan.

I'm still getting stuck trying to figure out what is too much money. If we get a cheap boat, will it be less fun and a bigger headache? If we get an expensive one, will it be more fun and easier to get my loved ones on board?
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:26   #29
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My 2 cents....find a cheap old(er) boat that is just large enough your family could spend the weekend or week on. Get a good survey to ensure it is sound.

Experience is not all about sail handling, there is maintenance, living habits, ext.

Over the next 5 years restore the boat, do all the work your self, and research the heck out of everything.

And most of all enjoy the time you spend with her. If you do I have no doubt you will love the sailing life.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:07   #30
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Re: Caught the Sailing Bug . . . in Kansas ! Now What ?

Hi all: I really learned to sail on a dingy many years AFTER having crossed the Atlantic in a 46' cutter and sailed to Africa in a 72' yawl. It's much harder and more instructive to sail the smaller boats; and your mistakes will be much more apparent and less costly. If you can really handle the little ones you will be ready and able to buy that 4 masted schooner when the time comes.
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