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Old 06-07-2009, 15:13   #31
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Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
I see your point and its well taken. That being said... Do you think its doable to find a safe boat for extended blue water cruising that we can afford, that being in a roughly 60k budget?
Not sure what size you're hoping for, but you should check out the Pacific Seacraft Orion 27. A great value for a young couple that doesn't need to be pampered. They aren't fast or opulent, but they're solid, proven, bluewater boats; several have circumnavigated.

You can find a ship shape one for $40K and have $20K left over for gadgets and spares.
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Old 06-07-2009, 15:14   #32
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I really like your attitude and approach to this. You're thinking it through the right way, trying to figure out the important things and make sure they're covered. Your boat budget may be an issue (low), but on the other hand this is about as good a time to be buying a boat as we've seen for decades, so you could easily end up with a good boat at a good price.

Your plan to coastal sail for a year is a good idea, not only for learning the ropes yourselves, but because most of the stuff that's going to go bad or break on the boat will probably show up in that first 12 months. Especially if you take her out in a variety of conditions and push it a bit.

If you keep at it the way you've begun, I've no doubt that in a couple of years, you two will be sippin' a cold one, anchored in some coral atoll's lagoon.
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Old 06-07-2009, 15:26   #33
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That we're missing some big piece that will set us back. Something we're not seeing. Is our budget even close?
Depending on how you live (and you seem to be going the frugal route), you might be overestimating your expenses a bit. So you could conceivable put a touch more into the boat or go a bit longer.
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What we don't like about our plan: People constantly tell us it is dangerous, we're too young, inexperienced, poor, stupid, uneducated, etc etc to undertake an adventure like this.
That really isnít so much about the plan as the reaction to the plan. Normally I have really short response in reference to those folks comments but the forum is PG.
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We also get lots of... "Why don't you sail the Carribean instead?" You know what... Because that isn't OUR dream
They may trying to push you there not because of the closeness of the islands nor the color of the sea, but because of the quality of the rum.
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So kind people with experience in these sorts of things. Do you think this is a feasible plan? Is there some big gap in our logic?
Overall this is pretty solid. I do think you should try to get with a sailing club and/or crew on other folks boats as much as possible. Or better yet, offer to help fix whatever they are going to repair. I'm sure you have your offer accepted for that one.

Check out a couple of blogs, Bumfuzzle and TimeMachine come to mind.
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Old 06-07-2009, 15:31   #34
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[quote=Target9000;301064]I've actually read the saga of Ronnie and what happened to him. After reading that thread I took to heart some of his mistakes and plan to learn from them. You know, like having some serious shake down ocean cruises before leaving and experimenting on the boat by playing games like... "Lets pretend the tiller is broken." and other nightmarish scenarios. I know that won't prepare you for dealing with everything and certainly not in terrible conditions, but hopefully we'll have a little bit of experience in the way of dealing with emergencies like this one before we set off.

Stories like that almost put us off going at all. Reading things like that makes you go... "Hmm, guess we'll have to sail when we can and not go until we're retired and after having a family. We'll spend all these years learning to sail so we can be ready "one day"." But other parts of us nag and say, "Its worth the risk. Prepare as well as you can to reduce the risk and go soon." Maybe if we come out alright on this we'll be more prepared for what we want to do later in life.

We've thought about altering course and just sailing the carrib for experience but I feel that bad conditions can hit anytime and anywhere. We might sail for 3 years around the carrib and avoid almost all bad weather. We might sail the world and not have any probs and coming back home get waylaid by a mega storm.

quote]

Consider extending your horizen maybe and plan to sail for three years. Spend the first year sailing along the coast somewhere like Mexico and the sea of cortez, or the Caribbean islands, then as your confidence and experince builds, plan on doing the big puddle jump into the south pacific.

Most people on this website are decades older than you and while the advice being offered to you regarding experience is certainly sound and worthy of solid consideration, there are numerous young sailors that have set off for voyages to far away places with limited budgets and reasonable experience. The older we get the more excuses we tend to make on why NOW is not the right time to try something adventuresome.

I suggest you read the sailing stories of the following sailors who had limited budgets and adn or limited experience when they started out and then see how you view it.

Liz Clark-search the Latitude 38 webiste for the numerous articles written on her.

www.Bumfuzzle.com read the sailing part from the beginning


Project BlueSphere - A solo circumnavigation & video documentation of the globe read it from the beginning

Video: Ocean Crossing | The Hynes Honeymoon!

lori, chris, and mandolin


GO GO GO Sailing...
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Old 06-07-2009, 15:38   #35
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That boat is a tank. If you like the layout and it surveys good there isn't any problems. But I would join the get more experience first before buying a boat. Even though I'm a lot older than you I started my sailing dream pretty much the same a few years ago. Got stalled out for 2 years, then took ASA bareboat lessons last year (was first I had ever sailed), then joined a club and sailed on various boats. I think you are better prepared to address what YOU want in a boat this way. Now I have a "new" Cal 39 (people always surprised such a large boat for our first boat). Spend a year or so on lessons and sailing on cruising boats before laying out your money.

PS - read a lot to overcome experience as knowing what you should do is pretty close to having done it sometimes (who really wants to sail in a strom just to say they have)
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Old 06-07-2009, 16:07   #36
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I've actually read the saga of Ronnie and what happened to him. After reading that thread I took to heart some of his mistakes and plan to learn from them.
Thanks to this thread, I've found Ronnie too! During the course of Ronnie's thread, people challenged his courage, and suggested his parents pay for his rescue. Here's something most people might not know about Ronnie; Ronnie took an RPG hit in Iraq while fighting for us in the Marines. He lost part of his vision, part of his hearing, and half of a lung. Scrambled his guts up a bit too. Seems he had plenty of courage, and I think we can call it even for the rescue too. Ronnie simply didn't know what he didn't know. We can help Target and all that follow him off to a safer start...
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Old 06-07-2009, 16:26   #37
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The above Westsail seems to have most of the equipment that you'll need. Ditch the staysail boom and the boat will sail a lot better and be much safer. Doesn't seem to be much in the way of light air sails. I'd want an asymetrical spinnaker with sock for offwind work and possibly a light wt. genoa for windward work in light air. You also should have a sailmaker check out all the sails for wear and stretch.

They say the stove is diesel but it sure looks like our Shipmate kerosene stove. Screwed up the burners trying to burn diesel in that stove. We loved our kero stove but they have fallen out of favor and the burners are getting scarce so you don't want to mess them up.

I'd turn the pilot berth into storage and add add a cabinet over the ice box to maximize storage.

If you do decide on a W32, keep in touch. Would be glad to share our knowledge of the boat. FWIW, we built our W32 for around $45,000 in 1974. Compensating for inflation, that would be about $225,000 in today's dollars. The $440,000 replacement value is a bit inflated. The engine is probably a 4-107 or 8. These engines only put out about 35 usable hp. That's more than adequate for the boat but just wanted to correct the inflated claim.

I learned to sail by doing a lot of reading and buying a boat. Never took a lesson, just went out and did it. Although you can't discount practice from that equation, lessons don't equal doing it. If you wait until you feel you are completely ready to go, you will never leave. The hardest part about going cruising is untieing the dock lines.

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Old 06-07-2009, 17:00   #38
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A little extra cash, a slightly bigger boat...

If you can work a little longer then you could probably get together another $20k or so more. This would translate into a bigger boat (say37' as opposed to 32'). Much more comfortable and slightly faster.

The bigger boat is also much more likely to come with sun protection (bimini and dodger), refrigeration, more fuel and water storage and better sail handling gear.

Have you considered wind vane self steering driving a separate rudder? Good autopilots are very expensive and rely heavily on the rudder staying intact. Not guaranteed on the older fibreglass boats.

You don't say where you're from. Starting from a good place is going to be way better than starting from somewhere involving initial long voyages and poor support/maintenance facilities. Anecdotal evidence suggests that cruisers starting from Florida and the Caribbean have a higher success rate for example.
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Old 06-07-2009, 18:03   #39
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If you can work a little longer then you could probably get together another $20k or so more. This would translate into a bigger boat (say37' as opposed to 32'). Much more comfortable and slightly faster.

The bigger boat is also much more likely to come with sun protection (bimini and dodger), refrigeration, more fuel and water storage and better sail handling gear.

Have you considered wind vane self steering driving a separate rudder? Good autopilots are very expensive and rely heavily on the rudder staying intact. Not guaranteed on the older fibreglass boats.

You don't say where you're from. Starting from a good place is going to be way better than starting from somewhere involving initial long voyages and poor support/maintenance facilities. Anecdotal evidence suggests that cruisers starting from Florida and the Caribbean have a higher success rate for example.
We live in Louisiana, so probably starting from the ICW and gulf of Mexico via Lake Ponchatrain.

We've thought of saving longer and going bigger but everything we read said that bigger boats don't just equal bigger purchase prices, but they equal bigger everything prices. Its also said they're tougher to handle?
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Old 06-07-2009, 20:00   #40
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Thanks for the replies folks. We've been looking at some boats that are already fitted out as suggested. There is a westsail32 next door to us that has circumnavigated three times! So boats like that give us hope we can do it. We've even considered making an offer on it as it has pretty much everything we'd need already done, just needs maintenance.
The challenging part of your plan in my mind is the pacific crossing. Have you considered starting where you want to sail, or at least a heck of a lot closer?

MicoVerde was a young couple from Seattle. They sailed thier Westerly 32 down the west coast and across the pacific. They then explored the south pacific eventually making their way to Singapore. They didn't do the trip in one go. They would sail for 3-5 months find a good place to leave the boat and then go back to their jobs and save up for the next leg. They gave up cruising to do that family thing.

I looked at their boat when it was here. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ale-11540.html

You could have bought provisions, changed the oil and made the next leg of the journey. This boat was in great shape.

There is a french couple here that were selling their boat (36ft?) for around $40k US. They were after a bigger boat. They actually found work here while they were making their next plans.

Another advantage of getting a boat in the region is that getting from Indonesia to Singapore to Thailand to Malaysia, the Philpiines etc. Is basically coastal cruising and a great place to gain experience. You don't have to take that great leap of faith across the pacific. The South Pacific is also not that far away.

Anyway - just making sure you've considered an alternative.

You might PM MicoVerde or if they have an email drop them a line. They were a very nice couple who lived the dream you are talking about.
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Old 06-07-2009, 21:46   #41
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Target 9000,
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, you have a good plan. I looked at the boat you put the link up for and if she comes through the survey okay, she might be a good one. The experience you will get sailing in the gulf of Mexico, will serve you well, no matter where you go. As far as currents & weather goes you get it all in your neighborhood. As well as the sudden changes in the weather. If there is a local sail club/yacht club ect... in your area, spend as much time on other peoples boats as you can to learn the basics & sail handling & such. As it has been mentioned on this forum many times, "it is not rocket science" and if you have good awareness and good sense, that will serve better than all the sailing courses you can find. You might not want to rule out raising a family on the boat either, boat kids are some of the most well adjusted self confident, cool people I know, and they have the ability to tackle anything that comes along.
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Old 07-07-2009, 06:35   #42
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Target 9000,
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, you have a good plan. I looked at the boat you put the link up for and if she comes through the survey okay, she might be a good one. The experience you will get sailing in the gulf of Mexico, will serve you well, no matter where you go. As far as currents & weather goes you get it all in your neighborhood. As well as the sudden changes in the weather. If there is a local sail club/yacht club ect... in your area, spend as much time on other peoples boats as you can to learn the basics & sail handling & such. As it has been mentioned on this forum many times, "it is not rocket science" and if you have good awareness and good sense, that will serve better than all the sailing courses you can find. You might not want to rule out raising a family on the boat either, boat kids are some of the most well adjusted self confident, cool people I know, and they have the ability to tackle anything that comes along.
I appreciate the reassuring words and advice. We've discussed kiddos on the boat but feel that we definitely want to actually *have* the babies on our home turf and surrounded by family and raise them until they're about 1.5 to 2 before doing anything else with them.

I've also heard that the Gulf of Mexico can be mean and will throw a lot of different conditions at you. We're happy that we're in a place with a body of water we can go into and train but that isn't so far from home that we can't get there often. Hopefully it will provide a wonderful proving ground for our skills.

As far as the boat goes, I hope the survey goes well. =)
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:16   #43
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Maybe you need to read Herb Payson, and his book BLOWN AWAY. You will get some BELLY LAUGHS, and see what can be done without all the newest technologies. You really don't need everything on the market to succesfully sail away.

A couple of inexpensive GPS's, paper charts, and rain catchment system will take you around the world. It's the boat, and the decisions made on the boat that will get you home safely.

Your plan is logical. Your questions are logical. Now get in some snotty weather sailing coastside, and get to know your boat, and it's systems. Then just do it!.....i2f
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:46   #44
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At the risk of the thread going sideways.......in respect of the boat, I would caution against being tempted to go up in size if the only way to do so is by taking on more of a "project" than you otherwise were thinking of. Usually very good reasons why folk sell boats that are unfinished / need a lot of refurb - including rapidly losing the will to live Not to say that some folk don't do so very happily of course.........

Given your timescale and intended use I would be looking for a "good" boat, i.e. something that is fundamentally structurally sound, with good mechanicals (engine etc) and in seaworthy sailaway condition (even if not Trans Pacific ready)........as much equipment and facilties (that you have already decided you want / need) fitted onboard as you can, condiition / serviceability / replacement / upgrades will be a part of you determining her value to you.

I would also be brutal with the boat and yourself in determining a boat's value to you (which can be different to the value determined by the seller. or the actual sale price). Find out how long you can expect x, y and z to last and how much to replace / repair (or remove!) as well as any changes you want / need. Price up at proffessional cost, as well as DIY...........and be honest with yourself about your ability to do stuff DIY, not just in skills but with time and desire. A couple of jobs is one thing, but 101 is a different dynamic (fun for some - depressing for others ). Spreadsheets are useful, if not fun.........

Just a thought - on such a trip I would want all new rigging (standing and most running) and a nice new set of sails - not to say that definately needed (as I said earlier - I ain't never done that trip ) , but I mention it cos' quite often the rigging and sails on an older boat are mostly of unknown vintage, even if the vendor does know the age of one or two things. Could be a good way of beating a price down, even though you don't actually replace everything until your trip is pending.
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Old 07-07-2009, 20:31   #45
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At the risk of the thread going sideways.......in respect of the boat, I would caution against being tempted to go up in size if the only way to do so is by taking on more of a "project" than you otherwise were thinking of. Usually very good reasons why folk sell boats that are unfinished / need a lot of refurb - including rapidly losing the will to live Not to say that some folk don't do so very happily of course.........
DoJ speks wisely.

Here is a shot of Mah Pe circa ~1960. Mom and Dad planned to refurbish the boat and escape to the South Pacific.

A bit of a project that was interrupted by 7 kids and life in general...

Dad's standing at the mast with mom in the middle.
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