Buying in Greece and re-registering advice

[Perna]

Hi,

A few questions about buying a 30 odd foot cruiser in Greece.

Some background first. I'm a Brit, resident in Switzerland and we have a holiday house in Greece. I've been told I could get a permanent mooring close by and with retirement coming up, a boat sounds like a great idea.

My questions are to do with registering the boat as I would really like to keep things simple. There are plenty of boats around, mainly Greek flagged ex charter. Question is do I really have to de-register the boat from Greece and re-register it in Switzerland or Britain? Do you Aussies and Americans register your boats back home? Is there maybe a minimum size for having to register?

Second question is about insurance. Are boats insured locally which would seem to be sensible or again are the Aussie boats insured on the other side of the world?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Perna

Hi,

A few questions about buying a 30 odd foot cruiser in Greece.

Some background first. I'm a Brit, resident in Switzerland and we have a holiday house in Greece. I've been told I could get a permanent mooring close by and with retirement coming up, a boat sounds like a great idea.

My questions are to do with registering the boat as I would really like to keep things simple. There are plenty of boats around, mainly Greek flagged ex charter. Question is do I really have to de-register the boat from Greece and re-register it in Switzerland or Britain? Do you Aussies and Americans register your boats back home? Is there maybe a minimum size for having to register?

Hi Perna
Welcome to CF .

You would want the boat to be deregistered at the time of the sale, so that it is not in the name of the previous owner. This does not give you an automatic right to register it again in Greece though.

There is lots to consider. Has VAT been paid? This is often not the case for charter boats. You will be liable for this unless the boat is not registered in the EU. If the boat is registered out of the EU, it will be need to be taken out of the EU every 18 months (plus possibly any time on the hardstand) or VAT will need to be paid.

If you have residency in Greece and are able to register it here, you may be up for both current or future local taxes imposed. You may still be subject to some of these keeping the boat in Greece long term, but not necessarily.

The British SSR is not an option, as you are not a resident in the UK for at least 6 months a year. They have have clamped down on this recently, requesting utility bills as proof of residency. British Part 1 registry is an option, but is costly and requires a surveyor.

Belgium and The Netherlands are two current possibilities with your British passport (you don't need to be a resident), but this will alter when/if Britain is no longer in the EU.

Registration can be a bit of a headache in situations like this.

[Perna]

Thanks Selworthy Lass, I didn't realise Belgium or the Netherlands were alternatives.

I need to do a lot more background reading but it does seem (unnecessarily? ) complicated at the moment. The thought of registering the boat in Switzerland where we are domiciled is bit daunting. I can imagine we'll have to prove that the exhaust emissions are ok. We'll see.

So the Americans and Aussies having bought a boat for cruising in the Med then register them back home? Wow,

Thanks again

[Perna]

Oops, sorry Seaworthy Lass, not Selworthy, , my tablet has a mind of its own.

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Belgium and The Netherlands are two current possibilities with your British passport (you don't need to be a resident), but this will alter when/if Britain is no longer in the EU.

Registration can be a bit of a headache in situations like this.

The Dutch will indeed allow foreign nationals to register yachts in the 'Kadaster' , but as the Dutch do not have a mandatory registration there is no cheap and easy 'small ships registry' for when you want to take your yacht into international waters. The 'Kadaster' registration is the most rigorous form of registration and quite costly and is used for yachts as well as tankers and other seagoing vessels, it is also a requirement if you want to put a mortgage on your yacht . It also requires that a 'Kadaster' official puts a mark somewhere in the boat (in person ! and the hull number just wont do !) that cannot be removed

costs :
450 euro for entry in the Kadaster registry
about 100 euro for yachts registry papers (valid indefinitely)
flying an official out to where ever the yacht is located .. I don't know but I just asked them for a quote so I will report back on that

[Perna]

Hi ReneJK, I see there is a Dutch light registration available for 350 € using a company yachtregistrationcompany.com which does NOT put you on the Dutch Kadaster and which seems very easy. Can you confirm this ok for local cruising in Greece? I am not thinking of doing anything international.

My second question to anybody, - where do you guys get your insurance? Where the boat is registered? Where you are domiciled? Where you are sailing?

Think I need an ouzo,

[ReneJK]

I would be very careful using that 'registration light'

this is the original issuer ICP aanvragen - Watersportverbond

and the translation from the original issuer reads

"The International Certificate Pleasure (ICP) is an unofficial title deed which performs well in practice. In most of Europe the ICP is accepted as an identity of the boat. This includes jet skis."

please note "unofficial title deed"
please note "In most of europe"

this means absolutely nothing and it can even happen that a customs employee or harbour master questions the document. I even heard of 1 dutch flagged yacht being put on a chain as the owner could not present an official , state/country issues, proof of ownership

As a Dutch citizen I am in the process of buying a yacht in Portugal, registering it in The Netherlands , hoping to cruise the med and beyond in the near future

p.s. 'local cruising' to means cruising where you live , cruising in Greece is not local unless you're greek ;-)

p.p.s insurance m I just reached out to www.pantaenius.com , they insure the Med and larger area's .

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

this means absolutely nothing and it can even happen that a customs employee or harbour master questions the document. I even heard of 1 dutch flagged yacht being put on a chain as the owner could not present an official , state/country issues, proof of ownership

I think you'll find that the UK's SSR is Not Proof of Ownership either..

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I think you'll find that the UK's SSR is Not Proof of Ownership either..

oh really ? I was unaware of that , I (wrongly) assumed SSR was a legal document

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

oh really ? I was unaware of that , I (wrongly) assumed SSR was a legal document

Its legal in as much as its an official form of registration.. however its a loophole for the OP to get an SSR if he has a relative/friend with a legit UK address who's prepared to be named on it.. alongside himself..
The Bill of Sale is presented as Proof of Ownership.

[Perna]

Hi, thanks to the information in the above replies there seems to be a few alternatives materializing...

- use the Dutch registration light if this is good enough

- use my sister with a British address to get on the SSR

- find a trusty Greek as a co-owner

A Swiss registration is apparently only allowed for Swiss citizens, which I'm not, and in any case this would require an independent safety survey (=€)

And as for insurance I guess Pantaenius would be a first place to look.

Any thoughts?

[dive_yeti]

If you are thinking to re-register the yacht, just do it in Malaysia at the tax free island of Langkawi. The cost is minimal, the yearly fee is less than 90 Euro (called tonnage fee) and NO taxes apply here. But I have to remind you as long as you are living in the EU, paying taxes in the EU, you are liable for VAT on the value of the yacht at the time you bought it, no way around it if you keep it in Greece, and Greece customs are hungry for your Euros!!
Check this website out about registration in Langkawi:

www.yachtchbroker-charters.com

The sweet thing is: No need to go to Langkawi
No need to bring your yacht there

ALL CAN BE DONE FROM HOME

[boatman61]

Thats who I use..

[ReneJK]

I just received a quote from Pantaenius

They are about 5% - 7% higher than other (local dutch) insurers for europe wide insurance coverage but it does include crew death/disability insurance. They are also one of the few (that I know of) that offer global insurance , which we would like to upgrade to when we start crossing the Atlantic and then beyond

I am figuring that since we want to have global insurance later on, it might be worthwhile getting with them now and become an established with them , it might make upgrading coverage easier later on

[Hahser]

Strongly suggest you de-register from Greece. If not you will be in a world of beaurocratic pain and taxes and more taxes.
The only positive about Greek registration is a reduced harbour fee - from about 8 to 3 euro (30' boat).

I have done this myself twice without regret.
You will have to pay VAT regardless of what you do about registration.