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Old 24-12-2016, 06:21   #1
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pirate Buying in Curacao

Hi,

Can anyone help us with rules and regulations that apply when selling a Dutch yacht to an English National on the island of Curacao?

Many thanks in advance and merry Christmas.

Lianne
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Old 24-12-2016, 07:23   #2
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Re: Buying in Curacao

as far as I am aware not much in terms of rules ? same as any other transaction

the only consideration would be that the yacht looses its VAT paid status (if VAT is paid and VAT paid status still valid) because its sold outside the EU (Curacao is outside the EU VAT agreement and is treated like such)
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Old 24-12-2016, 07:27   #3
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Re: Buying in Curacao

Dutch boat and an English buyer, see EU rules. Doesn't matter where the boat happens to be..
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Old 24-12-2016, 09:18   #4
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Re: Buying in Curacao

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
Dutch boat and an English buyer, see EU rules. Doesn't matter where the boat happens to be..
that is not how I understand it and how I was told by the customs ?

I was also told that 'VAT paid' status is automatically (officially) dropped after 'the goods' have been out of the EU for more than 3 years . This means you will have to visit the EU (or EU zone where they recognize and charge EU VAT) to maintain 'VAT paid' status . This needs to be proven to tax officials so you better save marina bills , fuel bills etc from places like St Martin and some other 'overseas territories' that are part of the EU and fall under the EU tax regime
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Old 24-12-2016, 14:45   #5
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Re: Buying in Curacao

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Originally Posted by ReneJK View Post
that is not how I understand it and how I was told by the customs ?

I was also told that 'VAT paid' status is automatically (officially) dropped after 'the goods' have been out of the EU for more than 3 years . This means you will have to visit the EU (or EU zone where they recognize and charge EU VAT) to maintain 'VAT paid' status . This needs to be proven to tax officials so you better save marina bills , fuel bills etc from places like St Martin and some other 'overseas territories' that are part of the EU and fall under the EU tax regime
"selling a Dutch yacht to an English National on the island of Curacao" says OP. As long as the boat stays registered in any EU country regardles of time being sailed elsewhere no problem. If imported to Curacao it's not a Dutch boat anymore. What comes to overseas territories most of them are not a part of EU VAT tax regime.

From Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro...alue_added_tax

Areas outside of the EU that are included Edit
Included with the Republic of Cyprus at its 19% rate:

Akrotiri and Dhekelia (British Overseas Territory)
Included with the United Kingdom at its 20% rate:

Isle of Man (Crown dependency)
Included with France at its 20% rate:

Monaco (sovereign state)
Areas within the EU that are excluded Edit
Areas of Finland:

Åland[58]
Areas of France:

French Guiana[58] (VAT free)
Guadeloupe[58] (low rate VAT)
Martinique[58] (low rate VAT)
Mayotte[58] (VAT free)
Réunion[58] (low rate VAT)
Saint Martin[58] (low rate VAT)
Areas of Germany:

Büsingen am Hochrhein[58] (enclave within Switzerland, part of the Switzerland–Liechtenstein VAT area)
Heligoland[58] (VAT free)
Areas of Greece:

Mount Athos[58] (VAT free)
Areas of Italy

Campione d'Italia[58] (VAT free)
Livigno and the adjacent Italian waters of Lake Lugano[58] (enclave within Switzerland, part of the Switzerland–Liechtenstein VAT area)
Areas of Spain:

Canary Islands[58] (VAT free)
Ceuta[58] (VAT free)
Melilla[58] (VAT free)
British Overseas Territories:

Gibraltar[59] (VAT free)
Areas outside of the EU that are not included Edit
Areas of the Kingdom of Denmark:

Faroe Islands[60]
Greenland[61]
Areas of France:

Overseas collectivities[61]
New Caledonia[61]
French Southern and Antarctic Lands[61]
Clipperton Island[61]
Areas of the Kingdom of the Netherlands:

Aruba[61]
Curaçao[61]
Sint Maarten[61]
Caribbean Netherlands[61]
British Overseas Territories and Crown dependencies:

Anguilla[61]
Bermuda[61]
British Antarctic Territory[61]
British Indian Ocean Territory[61]
British Virgin Islands[61]
Cayman Islands[61]
Falkland Islands[61]
Guernsey[58]
Jersey[58]
Montserrat[61]
Pitcairn Islands[61]
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha[61]
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands[61]
Turks and Caicos Islands[61]

BR Teddy
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Old 24-12-2016, 16:30   #6
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Re: Buying in Curacao

from the horses mouth (The Dutch customs) , but please do not believe me , please contact your own local / national tax office and ask them about article 154 of the EU VAT tax laws and the maximum of 3 years

Original Dutch text first , translation below that .


Geachte heer K

Verlies van status van 'Uniegoederen' , is beschreven in artikel 154 van de Douane Wetboek van de Unie.
Bij terugkomst, binnen termijn van drie jaar, in de Unie kan er beroep worden gedaan op 'terugkerende goederen' art 203 Douane Wetboek van de Unie.

Uw zeiljacht wordt dus beschouwd als 'Uniegoederen' en niet als Nederlandse goederen.
Voor het kunnen doen van 'n beroep op 'terugkerende goederen' In de Europese Unie kan het artikel, aangeduid als 'begripsbepaling' van het Douane Wetboek van de Unie van betekenis zijn.
In dit artikel is beschreven welke "grondgebieden en overzeese gebiedsdelen" tot de Europese Unie behoren.

Formeel bent opnieuw douanerecht en omzetbelasting verschuldigd bij terugkomst na de termijn van 3 jaar in Nederland en EU .


Douane
Landelijk Team Jachten
.................................................. ..........................
Bezoekadres : Duitslandweg 1 | 4389 PJ | Vlissingen
Postbus 3070 | 6401 DN | Heerlen
.................................................. ...........................


Dear Mr. K

Loss of status' Union goods "is described in Article 154 of the Customs Code of the Union.
Upon return, within period of three years, the Union can be invoked 'returned goods' Article 203 Customs Code of the Union.

Your yacht is regarded as Union goods' and not as a Dutch goods.
The ability to make one appeal to 'returned goods in the European Union to the article, referred to as "understanding determination' of the Customs Code are of significance Union.
This article describes the "territories and overseas territories" belonging to the European Union.

formally VAT needs to be reinstated customs duty and sales tax on return to the Netherlands and EU after the period of 3 years .

Customs
National Team Yachts
.................................................. ..........................
Visiting address: German Country Road 1 | 4389 PJ | flushing
PO Box 3070 | 6401 DN | Heerlen
.................................................. ………………………
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Old 25-12-2016, 00:30   #7
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Re: Buying in Curacao

Please understand the return status implies the boat was registered in Curacao, not in the Netherlands. Secondly it's valid only in the Netherlands, not if the buyer is from GB.
Check the boat papers first to find out which it is before everything else..

BR Teddy
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Old 25-12-2016, 02:39   #8
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Re: Buying in Curacao

Hi Teddy

as we are planning on a multi (4) year circumnavigation , the question I asked the customs office was :

What happens to VAT status on a EU / Dutch registered yacht if it is outside the EU VAT zone for more than 3 years (say 4 years) . The Yacht is currently VAT paid and the yacht will not change its registration during these 4 years

the answer I got is above : 'VAT paid status is lost if the yacht is outside of the EU for more than 3 years' and I was pointed to article 154 of the EU tax code where this is described

the only way to keep VAT paid status is to 'check in' into the EU VAT zone from time to time during these 4 years , if you do not do this , or have no proof of doing this, VAT paid status will be lost .

So if the boat in Curacao has been for sale for , lets say , 4 years , and has not moved in 4 years but was on the hard in Curacao the VAT paid status has now been lost

but please do not rely on info I give you here , please contact your local / national customs and tax people and ask them about article 154. I had a (very) hard time believing that I could possibly be VAT taxed again but thats the way it is
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Old 25-12-2016, 05:56   #9
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Re: Buying in Curacao

Thanks all for replying. VAT was not paid therefore not an issue and boat is currently "ship in Transit" in Curacao.
Just want to find out how to transfer the boat to the new owners without the help of a broker.

Thanks again
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Old 25-12-2016, 06:36   #10
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Re: Buying in Curacao

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneJK View Post
Hi Teddy

as we are planning on a multi (4) year circumnavigation , the question I asked the customs office was :

What happens to VAT status on a EU / Dutch registered yacht if it is outside the EU VAT zone for more than 3 years (say 4 years) . The Yacht is currently VAT paid and the yacht will not change its registration during these 4 years

the answer I got is above : 'VAT paid status is lost if the yacht is outside of the EU for more than 3 years' and I was pointed to article 154 of the EU tax code where this is described

the only way to keep VAT paid status is to 'check in' into the EU VAT zone from time to time during these 4 years , if you do not do this , or have no proof of doing this, VAT paid status will be lost .

So if the boat in Curacao has been for sale for , lets say , 4 years , and has not moved in 4 years but was on the hard in Curacao the VAT paid status has now been lost

but please do not rely on info I give you here , please contact your local / national customs and tax people and ask them about article 154. I had a (very) hard time believing that I could possibly be VAT taxed again but thats the way it is
The caveat here is the buyer being an english the english tax laws are what matters. If the boat has been registered in the Netherlands all the time might be best not to tell the bloodsuckers the whereabouts if they dont specifically ask of them. Mostly they are concerned only about the registration status.. Just my 2c
The answer given to you would be very troublesome for most dutch circumnavigators as most RTW's take more than 3years and I'd like to get that verfied from a dutch court if I were involved.

BR Teddy
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Old 25-12-2016, 06:45   #11
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Re: Buying in Curacao

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Originally Posted by Isis2 View Post
Thanks all for replying. VAT was not paid therefore not an issue and boat is currently "ship in Transit" in Curacao.
Just want to find out how to transfer the boat to the new owners without the help of a broker.

Thanks again
footsteps - Buying a used sailing vessel in the UK

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-boat/the-uk-ship-register

Hope that helps
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Old 25-12-2016, 07:13   #12
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pirate Re: Buying in Curacao

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReneJK View Post
Hi Teddy

as we are planning on a multi (4) year circumnavigation , the question I asked the customs office was :

What happens to VAT status on a EU / Dutch registered yacht if it is outside the EU VAT zone for more than 3 years (say 4 years) . The Yacht is currently VAT paid and the yacht will not change its registration during these 4 years

the answer I got is above : 'VAT paid status is lost if the yacht is outside of the EU for more than 3 years' and I was pointed to article 154 of the EU tax code where this is described

the only way to keep VAT paid status is to 'check in' into the EU VAT zone from time to time during these 4 years , if you do not do this , or have no proof of doing this, VAT paid status will be lost .

So if the boat in Curacao has been for sale for , lets say , 4 years , and has not moved in 4 years but was on the hard in Curacao the VAT paid status has now been lost

but please do not rely on info I give you here , please contact your local / national customs and tax people and ask them about article 154. I had a (very) hard time believing that I could possibly be VAT taxed again but thats the way it is
I think you'll find you can make a circumnavigation and meet the EU requirements fairly easily..
French Islands Caribe..
French Islands Polynesia..
French Islands Indian Ocean..
All are in the EU in one form or other.. entering them and clearing out of them as you make your way round will see you good for at least 12yrs before coming back to the continent..

PS: Post Brexit.. Theresa knows..
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Old 25-12-2016, 07:32   #13
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Re: Buying in Curacao

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I think you'll find you can make a circumnavigation and meet the EU requirements fairly easily..
French Islands Caribe..
French Islands Polynesia..
French Islands Indian Ocean..
All are in the EU in one form or other.. entering them and clearing out of them as you make your way round will see you good for at least 12yrs before coming back to the continent..

PS: Post Brexit.. Theresa knows..
None of them a part of EU VAT regime..
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Old 25-12-2016, 07:45   #14
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None of them a part of EU VAT regime..
However they are in the EU.. so I think that is sufficient.. all receive EU Grants and Mayotte just recently joined the list.
French overseas territories[edit]
A total of six French overseas territories currently have OCT status within EU.
The French Southern and Antarctic Lands (which include the French Scattered Islands in the Indian Ocean) is a French Overseas Territory but has no permanent population.[20] It has sui generis status within France.[21]
Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, Saint Barthélemy, French Polynesia, and Wallis and Futuna are overseas collectivities (formerly referred to as overseas territories) of France, while New Caledonia is a "sui generis collectivity". Saint Barthélemy[22] and Saint-Pierre and Miquelon use the euro,[23] while New Caledonia, French Polynesia and Wallis and Futuna use the CFP Franc, a currency which is tied to the euro and guaranteed by France. Natives of the collectivities are European citizens owing to their French citizenship and elections to the European Parliament are held in the collectivities.
On 22 February 2007, Saint Barthélemy and Saint Martin were separated from the French overseas department of Guadeloupe to form new overseas collectivities. As a consequence, their EU status was unclear for a time. While a report issued by the French parliament suggested that the islands remained within the EU as outermost regions,[7] European Commission documents listed them as being outside the European Community.[8] The legal status of the islands was clarified on the coming into force of the Lisbon Treaty which listed them as outermost regions.[9] However, Saint Barthélemy ceased being an outermost region and left the EU, to become an OCT, on 1 January 2012. The change was made to facilitate trade with countries outside the EU, notably the United States,[2] and was made possible by a provision of the Lisbon Treaty which allows the European Council to change the EU status of a Danish, Dutch, or French territory on the initiative of the member state concerned.[24]
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Old 25-12-2016, 13:02   #15
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Re: Buying in Curacao

Phil, while that's true in most matters, VAT's excluded.

What comes to three years limit outside of the EU the regulations use the term "export" which isn't excactly a synonym with "cruising around". I'd like to hear if anyone has ever heard of such interpretation.
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