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Old 03-03-2010, 21:49   #31
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Left to their own devices, most buyers and sellers will screw up even the best of deals and not many boats would be sold.
Most of the brokers that eat regularly know this fact. Bridging the distance does work if the goal is to close the deal. It is the way of buyers and sellers. Sellers want to sell and buyers want to buy. Confusion and doubt are the products of too much unproductive time. The difference between the good broker and the rest is they accept the idea that the deal is not going to close and they minimize the wasted time. In any buying or selling relationship if the time is not productive then the deal risks going bad with greater certainty.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:06   #32
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Nope!
That's not the way boats are bought ..It is Standard practice that anything about the boat that is unexceptable to the buyer for any reason due to findings either during a survey or a sea trial the deal is off and the deposit is returned if the buyer cares to go no further in negotiations....This can be a trivial as the way the boat prop walks.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough about the haul, survey, and sea trial. You are correct that you can walk away at that point for any reason. The penalty is that you have to pay for the haul and survey. That would have cost me about $2500 plus travel for two to St. Maarten which added on another $2000.

As far as a 10% deposit on a boat, if selling, I wouldn't consider less. Look, if you can't come up with 10%, your a weak hand. Maybe if your buying a $100k boat or less you can get away with less, I don't know.

It's the same for homes or real estate. I haven't worried about financing or insurance for quite some time, but maybe its an issue. If I'm selling, that issue needs to be resolved quickly. I'm not going to put a asset on hold for an extended period of time while a buyer tries to figure out how to get money or insurance. You as a buyer can strike out what ever you want in a contract but I as a seller can reject it just as easily.

When I'm buying, I prefer to deal from a position of power, which is I have the money and can close quickly. That motivates a seller to negotiate to their lowest sell point fairly quickly, especially during this recession.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:48   #33
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It is for this reason I would never allow a boat I was selling through a Broker to be either hauled for a survey or taken on a sea trial with out a deposit on an accepted offer first....other wise your just setting your self up for week end joy riders to waste your time....A 10% deposit weeds out these joy rider, fender kickers to most degree...and brings you serious intrested parties...with a level of aproved financing already.
Different "norms" in different parts of the world - many of which seem to have evolved as part of making a broker's life easier.

My bottom line (as a Buyer or Vendor) via a broker or not is that the deal / procedure has to work for me - especially when it comes to parting with money. If it also works for the other Party (and any Broker) then we may end up doing a deal - if not, so be it. Boats, cars, houses, whatever.

Appreciate the point about screening out tirekickers, but when using a Broker IMO that's his job (if not then yours) - after all it's only time being spent for a testsail if the judgement is wrong, it's not as if the boat is going to wear out

FWIW I wouldn't offer someone a testsail on the same day they contacted me and then only after they had been onboard and asked some decent questions / made the right noises / was indicating the right numbers - with me making it clear that any testsail would be less about a nice day trip and more about showing what the boat can do and pick me area, weather and time of day accordingly. Downside to me is that I have a tirekicker or 2 onboard, downside for them is I have a captive audience onboard for a couple of hours to bore rigid But fundamentally I would accept that to sell (at the price I want) will require some effort from me and that not every one who sees the boat / sails her will buy.......on that boats not fundamentally that different from cars & houses.

If we got to the point where a formal offer was made, I would expect only a nominal deposit ($500/500) simply as a sum no one would throw away. In my book if someone is willing to pay for a Survey / Haulout then they have removed themselves from the tirekicker list. A formal sea trial?, quite happy at that point to take her out again - especially if buyer is paying for an engineer onboard.

As a buyer I wouldn't be giving a 10% deposit to anyone (for anything) before I had thoroughly inspected the item, after all how can I assess whether I actually want the damned thing let alone accurately value something???!! Certainly would not be risking substantial sums - bad enuf risking the money spent on inspections.

Of course that means that some boats I couldn't buy - so be it just like any other deal requires both parties to be happy, no right or wrong to it.

Having said all that, if I was a broker (which I could be - no licensing requirements over here ) I would want the minimum of showing / testsails and the maximum of punters committing blind with large deposits they can't easily walk away from - and a sum that coincidently covers my fees for either sale or aborted sale........and if it required me to tell folks that was "normal" then I probably would at least until they expressed a strong desire to do otherwise............
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:46   #34
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When I'm buying, I prefer to deal from a position of power, which is I have the money and can close quickly. That motivates a seller to negotiate to their lowest sell point fairly quickly, especially during this recession.
Exactly the same reason Most Brokers require one before presenting an offer to the seller. They want the seller to be assured his boats not getting "Wore out" .. ( That's for you David).. at his dock.

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Different "norms" in different parts of the world - many of which seem to have evolved as part of making a broker's life easier.

.
Very true Dave... Most your post is about selling boats on your own though, where you have those first impressions and gut feelings to read people with and total control as to whom, when and why...but were talking about using or buying through a broker..totally different scenario...

There is no way I would give any broker permission to take my boat from a dock with out a signed purchase agreement and a deposit...

Not to hold those people ransom to a boat that may not ultimately fit there needs, likes or desires once they have had the chance to put it through the paces ..but to make sure it really is a boat they have already considered thoughtfully, compared to other offerings and are interested in enough to follow through and pull the trigger if it indeed dose meet those needs for them.

A 10% deposit tells me your serious..have done your homework..like my boat and want to pursue possible ownership of it... Otherwise admire it at the dock all you want.
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Old 04-03-2010, 15:31   #35
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Most your post is about selling boats on your own though, where you have those first impressions and gut feelings to read people with and total control as to whom, when and why...but were talking about using or buying through a broker..totally different scenario...
I would expect my broker to be using the same judgement as me when it comes to viewings and testsails, whether he end up onboard, or me - certainly would not be interested in paying a broker money to simply wait for a buyer to turn up with cash in hand asking to buy. Kinda like selling a s/h car, punters a PITA but yer gotta put some effort in.

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There is no way I would give any broker permission to take my boat from a dock with out a signed purchase agreement and a deposit...
As I said already, no right and wrong. But seems we would both agree that:........you wouldn't be selling to me - and I wouldn't be buying from you

But nonetheless always interesting to hear different viewpoints.
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Old 04-03-2010, 15:38   #36
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As I said already, no right and wrong. But seems we would both agree that:........you wouldn't be selling to me - and I wouldn't be buying from you

But nonetheless always interesting to hear different viewpoints.
LOL... probably not....but we might trade someday..
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Old 06-03-2010, 15:21   #37
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aCat,

That looks like a real nice boat. Rio Dulce sounds like a real nice place to start an adventure too.

Good luck with your Prout. She will most likely last forever.

Bill
Thanks, Bill! We like the Rio Dulce folks a lot, what we've seen of them online; real, funny, and a good community. As for the Prout, thanks again, we do think she will last well, especially after a few tweaks.

So, would this "canoe" of yours be a double-ended cruiser, or are you just working on building an awesome upper body by paddling from Canada to Panama, or what? :-)

~aCat
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Old 06-03-2010, 19:31   #38
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aCat,

I'm embarassed to report, it is a canoe, pure and simple. I've yet to find the perfect boat for me, i.e., one that I can afford, in good order, in about the part of the world that I want to cruise.

After I've paddled down to Panama, it should be a lot easier, I think. This seems to be a decision point for many cruisers, mostly I believe, where the wife says "that enough - let's sell the boat and go home"

Bill
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