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Old 02-03-2010, 18:24   #16
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Dang, that's severe. Was this from a well, know U.S. broker too?

Bill
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Old 02-03-2010, 18:29   #17
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aCat,

That looks like a real nice boat. Rio Dulce sounds like a real nice place to start an adventure too.

Good luck with your Prout. She will most likely last forever.

Bill
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Old 02-03-2010, 18:41   #18
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Dang, that's severe. Was this from a well, know U.S. broker too?

Bill
Do you mean my post? It was a Canadian broker & purchase. I suppose the "damages" are because it's hard to actively market the boat while you're doing sea trials & hauling it out for the survey.

To be honest, I didn't read the whole agreement before I signed it (oops!). Financing wasn't a problem- for me, the issue was the written survey, & I have to say the surveyor was really delinquent on that! I completed the purchase after a few phone calls with the insurance company. They had also insured the PO & agreed to cover me under the old survey until I got my copy. In the end, I had to have them "persuade" the surveyor to complete the report, since my calls weren't being returned.
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Old 02-03-2010, 18:54   #19
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Most of us go glassy-eyed when confronted with a legal agreement.

Hope the surveyor was better with the survey than his documentation.
Bill
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:56   #20
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Boat brokers, even if they are a little slimey, are held to standards set by a governing body...
Maybe where you are, in California, but that is definitely NOT the case in all states, let alone in all countries. Here in Florida brokers are, in fact, licensed and regulated. There are plenty of states, though, where anyone who wants to can hang out a shingle and call himself a "boat broker"--no regulatory oversight of any kind. I have no idea what the laws concerning brokers are in the islands, but you can bet that they vary from country to country.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:12   #21
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I have found it the reverse...No broker I have dealt with will present an offer with out a deposit...I would not either...there are more flaky buyers out there then flaky Brokers.

FWIW...Always specify " Subject to Survey's and Sea trial findings" Gives you an out on that closing date for any reason ..with full refund of your deposit.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:41   #22
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I've had both, deposit required with offer, and deposit required on acceptance of offer. I think in future I would always go for the later.
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:14   #23
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just like an offer on a house many of the items in the offer are already written in. Just like any contract you can cross them out before signing and summiting the offer to the seller. Or make an page with add ons you want. If they don't like what you crossed out they do not accept the offer.
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Old 03-03-2010, 15:35   #24
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"...Time shall be of the essence. Unless the Total Price is paid on or before the Closing Date, the Seller, at the Seller's option, may cancel this Agreement and in such event any funds paid by the Purchaser shall be absolutely forfeited to the Seller, not as penalty but as liquidated damages without prejudice to any rights that the Purchaser may have."

As a buyer I would never sign such a thing! And since I would be signing an offer with a broker who is suppose to working with me, I would run away from one presenting me with an agreement that said this!

Now if I was a seller, this would be like Christmas and I would start wanting a bunch of agreements to fall though!
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Old 03-03-2010, 15:59   #25
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As a buyer I would never sign such a thing! And since I would be signing an offer with a broker who is suppose to working with me, I would run away from one presenting me with an agreement that said this!

Now if I was a seller, this would be like Christmas and I would start wanting a bunch of agreements to fall though!
The issue is being able to get the financing finished. First you have the acceptance of the sea-trial and survey. You have to sign off on that. Afterwards, the owner must provide marketable documentation of ownership. So, what's the problem? He has title, you have money. Exchange them and be done. I've hired a document agent to facilitate mine. The seller is using the same agent.

I'll bet that every home you have ever bought is the same. After inspections are done, you either accept the home or reject it. At that point, if you don't close, bye bye deposit.
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Old 03-03-2010, 18:22   #26
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I've bought a boat and I didn't have such a statement. In fact mine said if I couldn't find financing under acceptable terms, or if I couldn't find acceptable insurance, that the deal was off and I got the deposit back. I've also bought 4 houses and the deal was pretty much the same thing.

Sounds someone needs to learn better deal making.
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Old 03-03-2010, 18:44   #27
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As a buyer I would never sign such a thing!
In my case the broker was working for the seller- I didn't use a buyer's broker. If I had, he may have warned me about that clause.

I've bought 3 houses over the years too, & I found the deposit on the boat was pretty steep at 10% of the purchase price. It certainly made me stop & think twice, as I've put $500 deposits on $100k houses.
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Old 03-03-2010, 20:41   #28
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just like an offer on a house many of the items in the offer are already written in. Just like any contract you can cross them out before signing and summiting the offer to the seller. Or make an page with add ons you want. If they don't like what you crossed out they do not accept the offer.
Bingo!
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Old 03-03-2010, 21:00   #29
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The issue is being able to get the financing finished. First you have the acceptance of the sea-trial and survey. You have to sign off on that. Afterwards, the owner must provide marketable documentation of ownership. So, what's the problem? He has title, you have money. Exchange them and be done. I've hired a document agent to facilitate mine. The seller is using the same agent.

I'll bet that every home you have ever bought is the same. After inspections are done, you either accept the home or reject it. At that point, if you don't close, bye bye deposit.
Nope!
That's not the way boats are bought ..It is Standard practice that anything about the boat that is unexceptable to the buyer for any reason due to findings either during a survey or a sea trial the deal is off and the deposit is returned if the buyer cares to go no further in negotiations....This can be a trivial as the way the boat prop walks.


It is for this reason I would never allow a boat I was selling through a Broker to be either hauled for a survey or taken on a sea trial with out a deposit on an accepted offer first....other wise your just setting your self up for week end joy riders to waste your time....A 10% deposit weeds out these joy rider, fender kickers to most degree...and brings you serious intrested parties...with a level of aproved financing already.

Any seller knows that an offer is subject to the buyer being happy with the boat...and is, or should be totally prepared for a subsequent lower offer to be tendered...if not!...then you as a seller better list it as is Where is and take your lumps right off the top...That's how the game is played....Sorry to say but the buyer has most of the power in the deal, the owner can just accept it or reject it.
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Old 03-03-2010, 21:20   #30
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As a buyer or seller, I never assume the broker is "working with me". The broker is working for the broker. In virtually all cases the broker only gets paid when the sale occurs. Brokers are in business. The fewer hours a sale takes, the better their profit. Being too honest with their client is bad for business. Instead, the brokers work closely with each other to try and figure out how to move the buyer and seller around to "get the deal done".

Now I actually have a fair bit of sympathy for brokers. Left to their own devices, most buyers and sellers will screw up even the best of deals and not many boats would be sold. But the industry would be better off if everyone dropped the charade that they were working for anyone but themselves.

I have met a few genuine buyer's consultants ( they never use the label "broker"). They charge an hourly rate and are willing to agree in writing that they will not accept any commission from anybody. This is, of course, also how lawyers work. Unfortunately, these folks have an incentive to drag out the search to maximize the number of billable hours.

We live in an imperfect world

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