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Old 10-06-2012, 12:51   #31
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Re: Bottom Paint

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
If those from the PNW who have posted in this thread are to be believed, it didn't need to be cleaned in the first place, so what does it matter if it's illegal to do so or not?

Mine has been in the water for three years since last haul out and bottom paint. It was not pressure washed. It has never been cleaned while it was in the water.

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Old 10-06-2012, 13:23   #32
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Re: Bottom Paint

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Uncleanable?? I am looking at 38ft centerboard boat on the market. The bottom is painted every 2 - 3 years, but the centerboard well has not been painted or cleaned in a long long time, and is coated with hard growth. Is this likely to be uncleanable? Is the gel coat going to come out with the organisms? (I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but it seems a pretty wide ranging discussion)
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Old 10-06-2012, 13:53   #33
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Re: Bottom Paint

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Mine has been in the water for three years since last haul out and bottom paint. It was not pressure washed. It has never been cleaned while it was in the water.
And your point is...?
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Old 10-06-2012, 13:56   #34
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Re: Bottom Paint

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And your point is...?
his point is" duhhhhhh"
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Old 10-06-2012, 18:08   #35
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Re: Bottom Paint

I only use a diver when I fell it needs it (usually 4 months on 3 year old paint, 6 months on new). It's not rocket science. I generally sand and re-coat every 3-4 years. I had a nit-wit diver in Santa Cruz. Ca. with an under-water power scrubber literally scrub my paint off to the barrier coat.
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Old 10-06-2012, 23:09   #36
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Re: Bottom Paint

""And if I was trying to drum up business, why would I recommend boaters use the most effective anti fouling paints available?"

fstbttms, Do you have a problem reading? Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. I said you had no financial interest in recommending that people use good quality bottom paint. I never accused you of trying to drum up business.

Of course now that you bring it up, one reason for you to recommend that people "use the most effective anti fouling paints available" is that it makes your job a lot easier. There is nothing for you to clean for at least a year.
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Old 10-06-2012, 23:52   #37
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Micron extra has been on mine now for 24 months and its been wiped twice,still looking very good, propspeed is all gone though.
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Old 11-06-2012, 07:59   #38
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Re: Bottom Paint

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There is nothing for you to clean for at least a year.
Fouling conditions and associated anti fouling paint performance are very region-specific. What Boat Owner A experiences in in one part of the country may be very different from what Boat Owner B experiences in another. Your blanket statements are made in ignorance.

See these pix (all of different boats in the Bay Area) with new paint 3-6 months old:



Bottom line (wherever your boat lives)- anti fouling paint should be cleaned when it begins to get dirty. This assures that the gentlest cleaning media can be used, thereby preserving the paint and extending its lifespan. Letting it get even moderately foul means more abrasive cleaning which takes paint off your hull and hastens the time when you will need to haul for paint again.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:33   #39
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Re: Bottom Paint

Its like deja vu, all over again
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:36   #40
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Re: Bottom Paint

"Bottom line (wherever your boat lives)- anti fouling paint should be cleaned when it begins to get dirty. This assures that the gentlest cleaning media can be used, thereby preserving the paint and extending its lifespan. Letting it get even moderately foul means more abrasive cleaning which takes paint off your hull and hastens the time when you will need to haul for paint again."

We agree on that. But if those pictures were of boats with paint less than six months old, it was bad paint or improperely applied. You have now twice called me ignorant. I'm getting pretty tired of that. I have been selling bottom paint for more than forty years and using it for fifty years. I have learned a thing or two in that time.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:26   #41
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Re: Bottom Paint

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...if those pictures were of boats with paint less than six months old, it was bad paint or improperely applied.
Sorry. You are wrong on either charge. In fact, the paint on the boat in the first pic was applied under the supervision of the Interlux technical sales rep here. All four bottoms (and I have pix of dozens of other similar boats/paint) were good paint jobs properly applied by respected yards. These pix simply illustrate the reality of fouling conditions in California.

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You have now twice called me ignorant. I'm getting pretty tired of that.
I'm sure you are. I wouldn't have to do it if you wouldn't make ignorant statements about hull cleaning and anti fouling paint performance as if they were gospel.

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I have been selling bottom paint for more than forty years. I have learned a thing or two in that time.
I'm sure you know a lot about selling anti fouling paint. But selling paint doesn't make you an expert on how well it works (or not) or how long it lasts or how it should be maintained. I've driven a car all my life. That doesn't make me an expert mechanic.

I'm sorry to hammer you, but literally everything I've ever read from you on Cruiser's Forum about hull cleaning and anti fouling paint is utter nonsense and as a professional hull cleaner with 18 years experience and 20,000+ hull cleanings under my belt, I feel compelled to call you on it.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:53   #42
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Re: Bottom Paint

Is how much the boat moves not a factor in this?Being on the hook or mooring there tends to be more movement;ie; swinging at anchor & current,as opposed to being stationary,tied to the dock.It says on the can,"self polishing."
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:57   #43
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Hopkin and fstbtm are both kinda right. Conditions dictate cleaning or not. You definitely can clean too much and too little based on your paint and growth conditions. I clean my own hull which has been twice in the last year. If you know what you are looking for really dictates the schedule. A thin layer of algae biofilm does not need cleaning I would argue. Thick mat algae tunicates, barnacles definitely needs cleaning. In the middle is where you should be.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:09   #44
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Re: Bottom Paint

An interesting approach to antifouling, Sharks dont get barnacles.
Fact Sheet: Biofouling Prevention Coatings - Office of Naval Research
Quote:
ONR’s research has yielded signifi cant progress in the development of two powerful, nontoxic biofouling prevention agents. The Sharklet™ coating, developed in partnership with researchers at the University of Florida, mimics the inherent texture and antimicrobial properties of shark skin.

Zwitterionic or mixed charge compounds, developed in partnership with the University of Washington, manipulate surface environments at the molecular level to prevent proteins from binding to the ship’s surface.
I wonder how they attach these Sharklet sheets to a hull bottom?
Glue on pieces of antifouling?.

I will prefer a paint of Zwitterionic or mixed charge compounds.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20658383

Quote:
Zwitterionic polymers such as poly(sulfobetaine methacrylate) (polySBMA) and poly(carboxybetaine methacrylate) (polyCBMA) have demonstrated impressive fouling-resistance against proteins and mammalian cells. In this paper, the effects of these surface chemistries on the settlement and behavior of an ubiquitous fouling organism, the cypris larva of the barnacle Balanus amphitrite (=Amphibalanus amphitrite), were studied in the laboratory.
Please price this new stuff affordably!
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:23   #45
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Re: Bottom Paint

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Is how much the boat moves not a factor in this?Being on the hook or mooring there tends to be more movement;ie; swinging at anchor & current,as opposed to being stationary,tied to the dock.It says on the can,"self polishing."
Of course a boat that is used a lot is going to stay cleaner than one that is not. But in the overall scheme of things, most recreational boats sit in their slip or at their mooring for probably 99% (if not more) of their lives. I service about 400 boats regularly- racers, cruisers, day sailors, powerboats and those that never use their boats at all. The only difference in how foul they get is the quality of the anti fouling product they use and how often they are cleaned.

BTW- all the paints depicted above are "self-polishing", for what that's worth. Ablatives get foul just like anything else.
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