Boat Values

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by jzk

the reported selling prices

Originally Posted by sandy daugherty;

what member have reported their listings sold for

I wonder about these.?.?.?.?.?.?

[sailorboy1]

boats are just like everything else, only buyers willing to pay determine the price of a boat

[BlueWaterSail]

To add to the many good points made already, the surveyor can be a real help in deciding the fair value of a vessel.

IMO, the prices of brokered boats are inflated to allow a 10% "haggling" opportunity, and the fact that the seller has to pay the broker 10% of the final sales price.

After that the question really comes down to what the survey reveals in terms of immediate expenses for essential repairs. These can lead to a dramatic lowering of fair value, especially in the expectations of the seller.

The buyer has the advantage in this situation, since the repairs can be scheduled over time / done by the buyer himself at a cost savings.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Dan1

Hello All,

I am brand spanking new to your forum but thought I would be brave and ask a very fundamental, relevant, and novish question.

How can I find out the true value of a boat so as to make an offer?

Every time I try to use NADA values the brokers or Owners reject them as too low or they just say they don't apply. I don't want to insult the owners but at the same time; a newbie like me does not want to over spend what money I do have.

Any suggestions?

Dan,

Any GOOD broker, key word "good", will print out a Soldboats.com report on "comps" that have recently sold. This will give you a range from the absolute lowest sale price of say a 1986 Catalina 30 and the absolute highest.

Soldboats.com is the industry melting pot for boat values in the US today. Almost every broker uses these numbers and I know of not one broker who uses NADA. As a general citizen you DO NOT have access to Soldboats.com (I believe it is now a division of Yachtworld) and only your "good" broker can pull this data for you. If a broker refuses to offer you the "comps" WALK away!!!!

[Vasco]

Just a note about the general notion that it's a "soft" market for sellers. The two cruisers I've traveled with for the last five years both quit in June, 08 after the end of last season. Both boats were sold within a month, one for the same price the owner paid seven years ago. These were both older boats built in the eighties, one a Morgan 38 and the other a Whitby 42. It seems there's lots of folks of an age where they're ready to go cruising and itching to get into a good cruising boat. I know this is anecdotal but I was very surprised that both boats went so quickly.

[Pblais]

I know this is anecdotal but I was very surprised that both boats went so quickly.

People that eventually go off and cruise have thought about it a while. Many people retiring like the idea and when they retire is the time they want to buy because they have been preparing for it. At that point in your life do you really care about the market? That isn't the whole boat market or even most of it. It sets up the situation of a highly motivated seller and highly motivated buyer. Deals get struck quickly. Our last boat sold in September and was on YachtWorld all of 18 hours. The problem is it took me 6 months so it could be there in ready to sell condition. At that point I was very ready.

You really only need one boat per buyer. No one deals in terms of the whole market even as bad as it is now.

[Jolly Roger]

A simple method I have employed after finding a boat I am interested in is to ask the seller, usually through his broker, what is the least price he is prepared to accept, (and you can bet your life they all have one). You must add, preferably in writing, you will either accept it, or decline it, but not attempt to bid it down further. The one exception is if something dire is found, not previously reported, during a survey/inspection/sail.
This straightforward method removes the ‘negotiation,’ and both parties know where they stand very quickly.

[Pblais]

Jolly,

I prefer that method as well. You basically say this is the deal we agree on unless I find serious problems. I'll pay in cash in 7 days. I need my written report so I can get an insurance binder and get you a cashiers check.

As a seller I don't want to be beat up for tiny things that really don't matter. As a buyer I can get my best up front price if I agree I'm not coming back to rewrite my offer because I wasn't serious about the offer. Suddenly all the pressure is off both sides.

I prefer having the survey be a formality with the idea I don't expect any serious issues so based on that here is the deal. It makes the rest of the process easier and if some serious issues are found it is done openly and with an already established sense of trust.

We had some red herrings on the survey when I sold the boat. Things were in the report that were clearly false yet were serious accusations. The poor buyer was beside himself and I wanted to find the surveyor for a chat. We worked them all out with a local third party rigger / sail maker and everyone was happy because we had already established a sense of trust. They buyer got all the items marked off his list. A good broker helps with this stuff too. You really can't fight with the other side. I knew the report was wrong but the buyer didn't.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

A simple method I have employed after finding a boat I am interested in is to ask the seller, usually through his broker, what is the least price he is prepared to accept, (and you can bet your life they all have one). You must add, preferably in writing, you will either accept it, or decline it, but not attempt to bid it down further. The one exception is if something dire is found, not previously reported, during a survey/inspection/sail.
This straightforward method removes the ‘negotiation,’ and both parties know where they stand very quickly.

I am happy to hear that!!!!

This was my plan when I am ready and hope it works.

The only flaw for my side would be a number that worked for me but a seller who wants to hold out for more. Would a further question of "how long do you anticipate holding out for more" be inappropriate?

[Pblais]

how long do you anticipate holding out for more" be inappropriate?

Just because they may do it later does not mean you should wait around. It's sort of like asking them how long do expect to stay stupid? An insult isn't going to convince them.

It's predicated on you knowing the real value - to you even if they don't. You might be happy to pay less but wouldn't you agree to a fair price. If you knew the offer was low why won't you come up a bit or ask to meet half way. When it gets close the half way idea can often get to the deal.

Doing your homework before making an offer is the whole key. If you make a low ball offer and they know the value then they think you are a fool. If it is a little bit low they might doubt what they think is the real value. You have not insulted them but you are close. Getting close to a deal allows the rest to happen.

The right offer is the best price compared to anything else you can buy. If the offer fails then the next deal is the better deal. The proper reply is "Thank you for your time but I have a better deal to pursue." If you have done your homework then you do have a better deal to pursue and can move on.

[jzk]

There are libraries of books on negotiation techniques.

However, this is a buyers market. Go to Yachtworld and type "bank repossession." The best way to negotiate, in my opinion, is to not be too interested in making the deal. Pretend that you don't "really want" that boat. Remember, that however good of a deal you think is on the table, there are 10 more just like that waiting for you tomorrow. Why not make a few strategic offers designed to test the waters before you get too serious? If you don't want to leave 10,000 on the table, you need to bid lower and act as if your offer is reasonable. Its the only way I know to feel out the seller. Everyone has a price they want, and a price they will take. And, every day that goes by, those prices seem to change.

[Vasco]

I think I've said this before. For most of us buying a boat has a very big emotional factor in it. Much more than buying a car or even a house. This usually overrides negotiation skills. It's not like buying a car where you can go to another lot down the street and see the identical car. And, as there is seldom an identical boat at a lower price, we can all say we got a good deal. As long as you're happy with the final result it makes little difference how much you may or may not have beaten the seller for. Only the seller knows what he/she might have gone down to.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by jzk

However, this is a buyers market. Go to Yachtworld and type "bank repossession."

15 pages, 144 listed, no sailing cats (Dang!), one monohull.

Makes sailors look like a better risk pool huh?

But we all know that.

[Jolly Roger]

If you employ my suggested method, neither buyer or seller have to jump through any of these hoops and you quickly find out whether either party is serious. If a seller is not prepared to state his lowest selling price he may wish to hold out for a better 'negotiated' price, but that's his choice. But everybody has one, (it might actually be the asking price), but if you agree not to haggle after they tell you, you either have a deal or you walk. Of course, his broker might recommend against this method, and we all know why that would be.

[sctpc]

Originally Posted by Vasco

It's not like buying a car where you can go to another lot down the street and see the identical car. And, as there is seldom an identical boat at a lower price, we can all say we got a good deal. As long as you're happy with the final result it makes little difference how much you may or may not have beaten the seller for. Only the seller knows what he/she might have gone down to.

Its hard if you are after a one off cat thats been left for over a year but there still asking the same price.